[Noisebridge-discuss] Hosting a sexuality unconference at Noisebridge? KinkForAll San Francisco wants to make some Noise. :)

[Ani Niow]

2009/10/25 Josh Myer <josh at joshisanerd.com>

> On Sun, Oct 25, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Miah Johnson <miah at chia-pet.org> wrote:
>
>> If you aren't interested nobody is making you come to the event.
>>
>>
> Unless he intended to use the space that day.
>


I imagine an event such as this would be announced far enough in advance to
where people who wanted to visit Noisebridge that day would already know
about it.


I don't mind the content of the event (not my bag, but also not
> averse/phobic/etc), but I am getting a little event-fatigued.  It would be
> nice to have the space not be used for big-space-consuming external
> non-hacking events for a few weekends.  Especially for events that (it
> seems) could find a great venue that would absolutely love to have them, and
> could do so without interfering with their day-to-day operation.
>


I also imagine that an event such as this would not be happening for at
least several weeks if not months from now, alleviating the event fatigue
concern.


>
> As Ani pointed out, Arse Elektronika was a good example of a
> sex-oriented event which was appropriate to the space.



That's not what I was pointing out in my comment about Arse. The message was
describing an event that has already happened at Noisebridge and seemed to
fit with the "interfacing two cultures" statement. Arse was a sex oriented
event that was appropriate for many spaces, it happened at Noisebridge
because people wanted it to. Do-ocracy and all.




>  Would you
> consider tailoring the focus of your unconference to be germane to the
> spirit and values of hacking?
>


Are you familiar with the concept behind an unconference? The great thing
about them is that they are user generated content. If you have something
you want to talk about that would fit in the conference than you should do
it. If you want to tailor part of the conference to be about the spirit and
values of hacking then by all means sign up on the wiki and participate.



>
>  Make Your Own Prophylactics
>  Recycled Condom Sculpture
>  Diagnose Social Diseases in Yourself and Others
>  Group Experiment: Is DVDA Possible?
>


Those topics look awesome. I'm very much looking forward to seeing you
present them.




>
> Perusing the program from your recent event in New York I would
> suggest to skip on any topics containing the words "hegemonic",
> "politicization", or "identity".  This might help make the sessions
> relevant to a broader segment of people at this space, although
> certainly there are venues where such topics would be appropriate.
>


I don't see why anyone should be suggested to *not* talk about certain
things at a conference such as this if it were at a certain venue, barring
anything that is explicitly non-excellent and outside of the scope of the
rules clearly laid out for KinkForAll. If this event were held at Femina
Potens for example, would talks be discouraged that discussed hacking and
technology and focused more on feminist art porn given the venue is a woman
centred, sex positive art gallery?




2009/10/26 Christie Dudley <longobord at gmail.com>

> Oh dear.  We sound even further apart than the DIYbio folks did, who had so
> many misunderstandings of the space and how we work.
>


I really don't think this has anything to do with the DIYbio group as the
main problems there were rooted in communication issues, or lack thereof. A
fridge showing up unannounced in our comparatively tiny space at 83c,
sucking up power and blocking members' shelves with a very confrontational
individual representing the group is far far different than the proposal for
KinkForAll at Noisebridge. Maymay has been nothing but polite and
communicative in his discussion, with announcing things far in advance and
getting permission from members to do something that could occupy a good
portion of the space for a day.



> Well, more specifically, we encourage people to "hack" which is subtly
> different than "doing interesting things".  We encourage the community to
> come and learn or teach about hacking and related subjects.
>


This point is negated by the paragraph below where you describe various
happenings at Noisebridge that may or may not have anything to do with
hacking as you describe it but are things the members want to happen. If
enough members want KinkForAll to happen at Noisebridge then I see no reason
why it shouldn't. I have no interest in the languages that are taught but I
will not discourage them from happening simply because it is something I am
not interested in, despite those subjects have nothing to do with "hacking"
per say.



>  For example, while it would be interesting to learn to play the saxophone,
> we would not entirely be welcoming for a saxophone teacher to come in to
> teach students in the space.  Although we do occasionally teach things like
> foreign languages or CPR, this is at the request of a preponderance of the
> members and is typically heavily attended by the membership.  Do you forsee
> this event as being heavily attended by members of the existing Noisebridge
> hacker community?
>




>
> Although rather confrontationally worded, I believe Jesse's comments about
> the difference between Arse Electronica and your conference bear some weight
> here.  If we don't attempt to keep to our mission, then every group in the
> city of San Francisco would petition us for free space to hold their event.
> We would be so overtaken by events we have no interest in, that our primary
> mission would be lost.
>


What's the harm in having groups petition us for a space to hold their
event? The worst that can happen is we can say "no". Given we are a 24/7
access public space this will start to come up again and again, some events
Noisebridgers will be very interested in and have a better chance of
happening and some will not. An event that no one is interested in will
probably not happen at Noisebridge therefore I don't see the problem.



> I see two different points you're making here:  Your inability to
> anticipate the number of attendees and some implication that Noisebridge is
> somehow more public than the businesses Josh mentions, such as Wicked
> Grounds or DNA Lounge.  I am rather confused by the latter.  They leave
> their doors unlocked during business hours so I fail to understand why you
> don't consider them public.
>


I think we can all agree that Noisebridge is more about a not for profit
learning environment as opposed to Wicked Grounds which is more of a coffee
environment and the DNA Lounge is more about a club environment. Those
things affect the types of events that will be held there and neither are
quite in the same class as KinkForAll would be.



>
> And as for your inability to anticipate attendence, it would be of
> significant inconvenience to us as well to not have some idea of the numbers
> of people we'd be hosting.  Assuming we agree to support your conference,
> there's a considerable amount of set up, time during the event, and clean up
> afterwards that has to occur to make the event a success.  If we were to
> accomodate you, we would have to abandon use of the space you require -
> however much that is - for the time it requires you to make this happen.
>

>From reading the wiki, past KinkForAll events have specifically allotted
time for setup and cleanup by the participants. Hell, we can't even get 5MoF
to clean itself up right afterwards, an event that makes it a point to do so
wins some points in my book. :)



>
> Once again, there are other venues in town that are not sexuality spaces.
> In addition to the DNA which Josh mentioned, I believe that SPACE, the
> warehouse Ani lives in likes to host this sort of event.  But as Josh
> pointed out, it's sort of rude to expect us to offer reasonable
> alternatives.  What would you do if we were to say no?  I was hoping to see
> why you would fit better with us as a hackerspace, rather than an
> illustration that you apparently haven't made much effort to find a space,
> or are willing to pay for it, which is what I'm reading from all this.
>

I would be more than happy to see if SPACE would be willing to host an event
such as this.

As for the last statement I believe you're reading it differently than
Maymay had intended it to be. The impression I got is that being the
organiser himself and has put on past KinkForAll events, Maymay has a pretty
good idea of what venues would be appropriate for hosting and Noisebridge,
as he said, was at the top of his list. He clearly explained why Noisebridge
was at the top of his list in the next email, perhaps it got lost in the
shuffle? I'm sure we all here know how preoccupied life can get, especially
if you're putting on an event. Perhaps he only has enough time to focus on
one venue for now and will focus on others if the community here feels that
it is not the right place for it.

There are a lot of assumptions in this thread that IMO are unfounded and can
be resolved by thoroughly reading the emails already sent as well as the
KinkForAll wiki linked in the first post. I trust those who have such strong
opinions about this matter to do both things.



-Ani
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