[Noisebridge-discuss] Sleeping in the Space AND Death and Taxes

Rigel Christian rigelc at gmail.com
Thu Dec 23 20:23:02 UTC 2010


On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 2:42 PM, Al Jigen Billings
<albill at openbuddha.com> wrote:
>
> On Dec 23, 2010, at 11:17 AM, Rigel Christian wrote:
>
>> In other words, "social justice is awesome so long as it either gives me warm fuzzies or doesn't inconvenience me."
>
> Putting words in the mouths of other people is rather insulting (as well as condescending). I wouldn't call doing any kind of social justice work convenient for anyone and telling someone who has taken time to do it the above is just annoying. It is neither here nor there in what was actually being said, though. Stick to the point.
>

oftentimes arguments do progress from specific problems to general
principles. personally i try and do things in this way so that i can
better understand what the underlying differences in motivations and
value systems are. furthermore, since it was you who brought up the
social justice issue specifically, i would politely ask you to cram
it.

>> And please don't misinterpret that, it is truly commendable that you've done this kind of work. But if we're only committed to social justice this far, then all we're doing is trying to assuage our guilty consciences for having it better than other people. Which is again, more than many many others are doing, but it can't exactly be called a principle in that case.
>
> Do you want a hackerspace or a homeless shelter?

these are the only two options? defining things in this way would
certainly support your position, but i question whether the options
are really so stark. it seems almost like you're fashioning a
hysterical, straw man argument.

> If you're wanting social justice, Rigel, go volunteer at a homeless shelter and quit trying to turn your hackerspace into one. Do some time at the SF Food Bank sorting food and helping people. Go volunteer at any one of a number of organizations dedicated to helping people who want and need help.

i'll spare you the details, but rest assured, i live the values i
espouse - imperfectly of course, but with an eye to becoming less so.
i simply dont wear my activities so obviously on my sleeve or use them
as rhetorical cover for my arguments.

>  Going back to the actual conversation, try addressing my actual point for once since you ignored it (again).
>

if your point was "i dont want to deal with other people's issues when
i'm trying to hack" then your solution of GTFOing was probably the
best one for all involved. i'm not sure, however, why you feel the
need to try and enforce that borderline sociopathy on others (even as
you espouse a belief in social justice).

all i was suggesting in the first place, is that a studied lack of
concern for other people's welfare, people who are presumably a part
of this multifaceted community in some fashion, is incompatible with a
view of NB as any sort of community organization or service. my sole
suggestion was to echo jake's, that talking to people who are doing
things you dont like (in this case, sleeping) is of much greater
value, both in personal terms and in terms of community building, than
simply whining.



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