[Noisebridge-discuss] Sleeping in the Space AND Death and Taxes

[Sai]

WTF, d00d. You're being… both compassionate and reasonable here.

I've found myself agreeing with you more than not lately.

What the hell did we have against each other anyway?

- Sai

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 4:19 PM, Jacob Appelbaum <jacob at appelbaum.net> wrote:
> On 12/23/2010 09:02 AM, Al Jigen Billings wrote:
>> You know, the 25+ message thread of BS in the last 12 hours or so,
>> once AGAIN, about people sleeping in the space may actually have
>> something to do with the Death and Taxes thread and why NB cannot
>> seem to get people to reliably give money to the space. Why give
>> money to an organization that, even when it consenses on how it wants
>> to be, where people will simply, in the name of anarchist principles,
>> do whatever the hell they want to do in spite of consensus?
>>
>
> What? This has almost nothing to do with anarchism Al.
>
> I think that Kelly quite clearly stated that we're at three months of
> reserves and that things aren't actually as dire as Shannon had first
> suggested.
>
> So honestly - now that we've got that out of the way - why don't you
> stop trashing Noisebridge because things don't *appear* to run smoothly
> all the time?
>
>> Jake, some people don't want to talk to every person sleeping in
>> order to find out *why* they are doing so. They simply want them not
>> to do it, class distinctions or not. I find it amazingly stupid that
>> y'all spent a month of arguing at great length about this recently
>> and yet here it is again. Is it a hackerspace or a hippie crashpad,
>> people?
>>
>
> You're showing your compassionate Buddhist side again Al. :-)
>
> I haven't been arguing for a month about anything.
>
> I suggested that if someone is sleeping at the space you'll not solve
> "the problem" by making a rule they're apparently going to ignore
> anyway. If you or someone else talks to them, you'll either be able to
> understand why or helpfully correct them into something new. Perhaps
> you'll find that the problem does require some intervention by the
> larger group; I hope that if that ever happens, we won't repeat the
> treatment of our Czech friend.
>
> Just like you'd do if someone spilled a hazardous chemical or if someone
> was blasting Merzbow while you were trying to do a sound study.
>
> I think that real change comes through understanding - not through
> pretend enforcement that isn't going to happen. Each member of our
> community has to want to not sleep at Noisebridge or they're going to
> keep doing it. If they're not members of our community, I think that's a
> different conversation but only slightly.
>
> I have personally encouraged people not to sleep in the space and it
> didn't happen because I rained down threats or bitched them out. I
> listened to why the person was sleeping in the space and then I helped
> them to the best of my ability. They stopped when they realized it was
> doing damage to *our* and thus their community - they understood and
> they changed themselves.
>
> All the best,
> Jake
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