[Noisebridge-discuss] RFID Access System

Thu Feb 4 07:14:26 UTC 2010

One of the things Chris mentioned at his workshop is that the little shields
that they issue with passports/North American travel cards do not work.  You
may as well just wrap your stuff in plastic.  What he did demonstrate,
however, is that a little tinfoil in your wallet goes a long ways to
blocking the signal.

Christie
_______
"The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom." -- W. Blake.

On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 1:56 PM, David Stainton <dstainton415 at gmail.com>wrote:

> Yeah nevermind... There's nothing to block here.
> If people want to play with RFID that's cool.
> I may even help... but let's not misuse it.
>
> I have also been issued credit/debit/atm cards with RFID.
> After the first RFID workshop; as per Chris Paget's suggestion, I
> promptly microwaved them in
> the Noisebridge microwave for about 2 seconds.
> There was a satisfying and noticeable rectangular shape that appeared
> on the card...
> Also a well aimed smashing with a hammer may work as well.
> I have since gotten rid of all RFIDs that I used to carry before I was
> informed.
>
> As for the passport issue; I don't have a solution and I'm not real
> enthused about the shielding wallets.
> It would be interesting to perform experiments to see just how well these
> RFID shielding passport wallets actually work. These wallets do not
> completely encase
> the RFID chip... so the RFID chip could still be some exposured to
> radiation.
>
> I was thinking to make my own passport RFID shielding wallet out of
> sheet metal so that the passport
> could be shielded from all directions.
> But really the best shielding would be a faraday cage
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage);
> and it that case the metal would be grounded. Not really possible to
> have a portable faraday cage in that case.
>
>
> ~david415
>
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 9:40 AM, Ian Atha <thatha at thatha.org> wrote:
> > + Changing Subject--Door Bell != RFID Access System.
> >
> > David,
> >
> > I find your concerns valid and I sympathize with them, to a certain
> extend.
> >
> > I was wondering if you would be willing to describe to us what
> > measures you are currently taking to protect yourself from such
> > surveillance.
> >
> > I have been issued credit and debit cards with mandatory RFID tags, my
> > work badge is using some sort of RFID technology, and I've often found
> > RFID tags in products I have purchased. All these, assuming the emit a
> > constant value when read, could be used to track an individual.
> >
> > How do you currently protect yourself?
> >
> > Out of curiosity, would you be concerned if someone implemented a
> > smart-card based system? I presume that someone motivated enough could
> > target the electromagnetic noise emitted by a reader reading your
> > smartcard--the attacker wouldn't be able to track you around the
> > globe, but they'd know your Noisebridge visiting patterns.
> >
> > Lastly, what do you mean by "block the [...] motion". Although a
> > Noisebridge newbie, my understanding was that if someone is willing to
> > do something, they may do so. If the group decides an RFID tagging
> > system is unwelcome, there would have to be consensus on "ban RFID
> > systems from Noisebridge", no? What am I missing?
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > -ian.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 02:02, David Stainton <dstainton415 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> Greetings Blaine,
> >>
> >> I've got to say that while I appreciate your enthusiasm in getting
> >> this doorbell problem solved I think
> >> RFID is a horrible technology for that purpose...
> >>
> >> I know a thing or two about RFID from hanging out with Chris Paget who
> >> graciously taught a couple
> >> of RFID workshops at Noisebridge...
> >>
> >> There is just now way I'm going to walk around with an RFID tag and I
> >> don't recommend anyone else do it either.
> >> The presence of an RFID tag can be detected from across the street or
> >> perhaps even farther away.
> >> RFID sensors could in fact be placed around the city to track the
> >> movements of Noisebridgers.
> >> Or how about a public-garbage-can that explodes when a certain number
> >> of Noisebridges congregate near it?
> >> Sound crazy? I'm sure that similar devices are being developed for
> >> sucka fool US passports with the new RFID tag...
> >>
> >> I will block the RFID access control motion. I will explain to all my
> >> Noisebridge friends my view on this matter.
> >> I won't be the only one to enthusiastically disagree.
> >>
> >> Please give it some thought before responding.
> >> BTW this seems to be your first post to the noisebridge-discuss list
> >> and you are suggesting this. Wow.
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >>
> >> ~david415
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 10:31 PM, Blaine Forbort <b.forbort at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>> I had a hell of a time getting in on Sunday.  There where a ton of
> people
> >>> near the buzzer, so I found it very odd that no one let me in.  Then a
> few
> >>> hours later someone reported that they had been buzzing for 10+
> minutes, and
> >>> even though I was sitting near the buzzer, I only heard the buzzer go
> off
> >>> once and answered it immediately.
> >>>
> >>> I also spoke to another individual about the idea of an RFID system for
> the
> >>> gate.  The concept was very simple: a pool of RFID tags would be left
> at
> >>> Noisebridge.  You grab an RFID tag on your way out, and it would grant
> you
> >>> automatic reentry on your return.  The hardware for such a system would
> be
> >>> VERY simple; something like this:
> >>> http://www.makershed.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=MKPX2 with a
> >>> microcontroller and a relay.
> >>>
> >>> The question is, would Noisebridge cover the cost of the RFID tags?
> They
> >>> run from $1.50 to $5 each depending on what kind of chip they use
> (Hitag
> >>> would be nice so it would work with my implant).  If so, I'd be very
> happy
> >>> to help with the project.
> >>>
> >>> Blaine
> >
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