[Noisebridge-discuss] NoisyCalendary

[Ever Falling]

anecdotal evidence as it is, this doesn't at all prevent an organizer from
simply adding contact info into the description of the event (thus possibly
envoking this mind set of 'follow the leader' that you're talking about).
what is being suggested is simply a standardized built in field for such
info in case someone would like to use it. i understand the concept you're
trying to explain but i don't think the mere existence of a contact field
will necessarily do more to encourage the aforementioned mind set than
someone putting the contact info in the description field instead.

On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 9:03 PM, Jacob Appelbaum <jacob at appelbaum.net>wrote:

> Ever Falling wrote:
> >> Leif Ryge wrote:
> >> My objection is that it encourages people to think that groups belong to
> >> or are led by individuals, which need not necessarily be the case.
>
> [...]
>
> >  there's no proof that a
> > simple optional contact field encourages people to think a certain way
> about
> > group leadership so why worry about it until it arises?
>
> There isn't direct proof of your statement. However, I think there is
> sufficient anecdotal evidence to support Leif's claim. I support the
> spirit of what Leif stated: It isn't always the case that groups or
> events belong to or are led by any specific individuals.
>
> Circuit hacking Monday is a good example of an event that isn't owned,
> Python class is an example of an event that feels as if it's owned by a
> specific person. Neither is of course owned by anyone. You can hack on
> circuits or python whenever you'd like. You can share that information
> with anyone, whenever you want.
>
> However, this Way of Noisebridge isn't always clear to people outside
> the main core of familiar-with-Noisebridge people. Some event
> organization is less chaotic in nature. This happens with good events:
> Karen runs Dorkbot, when Karen isn't around, Dorkbot is unlikely to
> happen in San Francisco. But that doesn't mean all events have to be
> that way.
>
> An example (with a slight tangent):
>
> How many times have you heard that Python class has been canceled? How
> many people didn't show up to hack on Python together as a result? I can
> think of a few people who felt discouraged. I encouraged them to go hack
> on Python in the space anyway. Who _needs_ a teacher to spend time
> hacking on or learning about Python? Not too many people and those
> precious few can ask the other Python hackers gathered together in one
> space... Still for the people I spoke with, it was counter intuitive to
> go to a canceled class.
>
> Part of this event cancellation is an assertion of ownership of an
> event/gathering/sub-group. Part of it is an assertion of intention by
> the organizer.
>
> I'm not so happy with the former but I respect the latter.
>
> Canceling the event seems silly. The night of python hacking is still
> possible without the teacher. But obviously, it's good when the person
> wanting to skill share sets expectations for people who want to listen.
> There's an unintended consequence in this set of events. It's
> non-obvious that it's still cool to show up and hack away on Python even
> if the "teacher" isn't around.
>
> For people who are making their intro to programming and to Noisebrige
> in general, I'm certain that this is counter-intuitive.
>
> Some (many? way too many?) people seek permission and have a
> deny-by-default auto-pilot policy. So it's clear to me that when there's
> a point of contact, it will continue to encourage people to think that
> they're the leader or that if the leader can't come, the group might not
> meet. I think it also encourages people to wait for someone else to take
> the lead.
>
> If the point of scheduling is to ensure collaboration about a topic of
> some sort, blocking out the room for a given topic should be good enough
> to get the discussion going. People will self-organize by default when
> they arrive...
>
> ( Failing that, it's often possible to just look into the wiki edits and
> see who was interested enough to insert an entry into The One True
> Calendar. )
>
> Best,
> Jake
>
>
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>


-- 
Trying to fix or change something, only guarantees and perpetuates its
existence.
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