[Noisebridge-discuss] N00b question - changing power supply voltage

jim jim at well.com
Tue Jul 6 18:37:37 UTC 2010


   i'd tho't 7812s were only available in 1 Amp 
form; are there higher Amperages available for 
78XX regulators? 
   i'm guessing you mean TO-3 rather than TO-2, 
yes? 
   there's a variable voltage regulator, LM338, 
that comes in a steel TO-3 package, will output 
from about 5 to a little over 30 VDC, very good 
regulation, and is rated at 5 Amps; i love 'em. 
on the order of $5 each. 


On Tue, 2010-07-06 at 11:07 -0700, Josh Myer wrote:
> 7812s are pretty standard for this sort of thing, and you can get them
> in beefy TO-2s, which take the silverpaste real good and have two
> places to bolt them to a big heatsink.
> 
> 
> That said, it's worth thinking through what jonfoote mentions about
> the Carnot cycle.  That is: if you use linear regulators, you're
> dumping half of your input power as heat right there, then dumping 90%
> of what gets through as heat off the peltier device.
> 
> 
> The exact math there is left an exercise for the reader.
> 
> 
> (Hint: leave room in your enclosure for a little muffin tin, and
> consider making some DIY versions of these:
> http://www.amazon.com/Easy-Bake-Super-Pack-mixes/dp/B00005C32X )
> --
> /jbm
> 
> On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 10:57 AM, Corey McGuire <coreyfro at coreyfro.com>
> wrote:
>         http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=527 times 18?  That sounds like a bit much.  Maybe there's a better regulator.
>         
>         
>         
>         On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Corey McGuire
>         <coreyfro at coreyfro.com> wrote:
>                 This is the best back-of-napkin application I've seen
>                 for TEJ's, ever and a 24v power supply is the perfect
>                 supply for it.
>                 
>                 There are two problems I see:
>                      1. When you cycle them to maintain a temperature,
>                         the heat you moved to one side will quickly
>                         conduct back to the other.
>                      2. In this process, a charge will be created and
>                         sent down the wire.
>                 How you handle this is a mystery to me.
>                 
>                 Here's what I would do.  I would NOT wire them in
>                 series.  Instead, I would implement switching power
>                 supplies and use them to keep the TEJ's active at 16v
>                 when cooling or a lower voltage while maintaining the
>                 desired temperature.  Then I would switch them
>                 relative to how far below the desired temperature they
>                 are.  Any temp above desired, 16v; 1 degree below,
>                 12v; 3 degrees below, 8v... or whatever.
>                 
>                 I would NOT overdrive them because I imagine they just
>                 get even LESS efficient.
>                 
>                 1 arduino
>                 1 temperature probe
>                 a fist full of switching power supplies
>                 a capacitor just to keep power going to the TEJ to
>                 help resist the heat moving backward (I don't know if
>                 this is a problem, but it is a cheap solution.)
>                 whatever else (I am not even pretending to be an EE.)
>                 
>                 YMMV
>                 
>                 
>                 
>                 
>                 
>                 
>                 
>                 On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 9:35 AM, Sean Cusack
>                 <sean.p.cusack at gmail.com> wrote:
>                         Oh yes...I know they are terrible at
>                         efficiency...but they are also the only thing
>                         that I know of that can get you to sub-ambient
>                         temperatures without using a (comparatively)
>                         giant refrigeration system.
>                         
>                         I'm planning on using these to cool a few
>                         pieces of lab equipment. Typically, to get to
>                         sub ambient conditions, you have to use
>                         ice/water (gets you to 0C), or dry ice/acetone
>                         (gets you to -78C), or full on Liquid N2 which
>                         gets you too cold for most practical
>                         applications. It would be *awesome* to hit
>                         like -20 or -10 or even 5C repeatedly and
>                         controllably for a million and one different
>                         chemical reactions. 
>                         
>                         There is equipment that allows you to do this
>                         now, but pretty much its a standalone
>                         refrigeration system that pumps cooled silicon
>                         based oil through your reaction mixture. It
>                         takes up a ton of room on my bench, and since
>                         those refrigerators are on the order of $7k a
>                         pop, its tough to convince my boss to allow me
>                         to buy more than about 2 of them. In other
>                         words, longer hours for Sean in the lab = teh
>                         sux.
>                         
>                         So, I'm trying to use these doodads as a way
>                         to run a bunch of reactions at a controllably
>                         cold temperature. I agree there's problems,
>                         but given the application, it may just work!
>                         
>                         Sean
>                         
>                         
>                         
>                         On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 8:44 AM, Jonathan Foote
>                         <jtfoote at ieee.org> wrote:
>                                 On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 4:17 AM, Corey
>                                 McGuire <coreyfro at coreyfro.com> wrote:
>                                 
>                                 > Messy, messy stuff.  TEJ's are not
>                                 efficient.  This is fine by
>                                 themselves.  When you stage them,
>                                 their inefficiencies > become readily
>                                 apparent as they begin to compound.
>                                 >
>                                 > May I ask what you intend to do with
>                                 them?
>                                 
>                                 
>                                 Yeah, also curious. Corey is
>                                 absolutely right: TEJs have terrible
>                                 Carnot efficiency --  way less than
>                                 10%. This means to move (not
>                                 remove) 5 watts of heat you have to
>                                 put in 50+ watts of power, which
>                                 turns into heat you ALSO need to
>                                 remove.
>                                 
>                                 So they are only useful in a few
>                                 applications where the small temp
>                                 difference over a tiny scale is worth
>                                 the waste. If they really were
>                                 the magic refrigerators people think
>                                 they are, they would be in every
>                                 PC and laptop. And note that if you
>                                 are trying to keep things cool,
>                                 there may be far better solutions.
>                                 
>                                 "In this house we obey the laws of
>                                 thermodynamics!"
>                                 
>                                 -J
>                                 
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>                         
>                         
>                         
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> 
> -- 
> Josh Myer 650.248.3796
> josh at joshisanerd.com
> 
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