[Noisebridge-discuss] My pants got pwned @ 5MoF

Tue Jun 22 22:22:29 UTC 2010

I appreciate you being a good sport and don't mean to sound accusatory, but
I still maintain you need to try to come up with a different explanation as
to what happened.  If my alternate explanation doesn't seem likely, then try
to consider other possibilities, including ones where you are personally
responsible.  I know there are some others here who would be happy to play
detective and help you figure out what actually happened.  I find your
story, as presented, simply not believable.

I am thoroughly convinced there were no people sneaking about the space, or
someone would have said something.  Although we have some pranksters amongst
our numbers, we know they're there and the more responsible amongst us
(several of which were in clear view of the entrance to the dirty shop)
would have seen and stopped it, or at least given them away.  Our open
architecture works against sneakiness, at least in the main space.

More important than that, what you describe with the laser beams is actually
a little crazy if you understand much about lasers.  I could go into a
lengthy explanation as to every reason there is (I come up with about 5
completely independent ones off the top of my head (weight and wieldability,
collateral damage, aim, precision and control, and a shifting target). I'd
bet there are others, too.

It's been proven that memories get clouded and when you latch onto an idea.
 This is why eye-witnesses are considered the least reliable evidence in a
trial.  It's easy to remember corroborating evidence even if it didn't
actually happen.  It's easy to "fit all the pieces together" to an
explanation that doesn't involve any culpability on your behalf as well,
especially when you've spent time in a place you don't much trust.

I'm appalled at the idea that something like that could happen at the space.
 I'm sorry if I sounded accusatory, but what you are suggesting is not only
technically impossible with our level of technology, but suggests that
there's a systematic support of some really vicious and dangerous stuff.
 Although you might be able to forgive someone like that, the community
would not.

What's more, it perpetuates the notion that we're a den of chaos, which
although it's nice you can forgive us of it, it's something I consider to be
a terribly unfair characterization.  That sort of thing gives us a bad rap
amongst people like yourself who are not as charitable and it's something
that's potentially very damaging.  We recognize this, which is one of the
many reasons we tend to police our own.  (Another being we'd never get
anything done if we had to continually deal with that kind of hijinx.)

It would indeed be interesting to look at the pants under the microscope.
 I'm not quite sure what that would tell you, though, especially since the
edges are all roughed up now.  It would also be really interesting to see if
someone can find the swatch of denim that was cut out.

Christie
_______
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The
latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to
hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
-- Albert Einstein

On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 2:12 PM, John Morgan <dr1ce315 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Sorry if I sound accusatory.  People said they wanted to know exactly what
> I experienced and I replied in kind with nearly every relevant detail I
> could recall.  In fact I've repeatedly been a "good sport" and said I
> thought it was funny, while I could have been pissed, and certainly was for
> the first few hours after discovering it.
>
> I personally didn't go near the soldering stations that night, so if
> someone figured out how to get that heat gun across the room and pull that
> off, good job, but wouldn't that had melted the area, preventing fray?  I
> did goto the Cancun place down the road for a burrito, has anyone ever got
> their ass burned there?  I went straight home after that, I n
> normally change as soon as I get home, and didn't see what happened till
> the next day...
>
> My guess was it was just barely enough to heat to cut the thing, overtime,
> using very intensely focused beam, but i could be wrong.  I don't know lots
> about lasers either, but it was the most logical conclusion in MY mind.
> Hell for all i knew, all n00bs got a new ass hole burnt in them.
>
> If it indeed was a laser, I believe the person may not be stepping up,
> fearing perhaps liability for what was potentially a very dangerous stunt.
>
> Well, I haven't worn the pants since I posted the picture.  Shouldn't a few
> tests and a microscope be able to tell?  I was thinking of taking a trip to
> the meeting tonight so if anyone who wants to look at them is going to be
> their, let me know and I'll be sure to bring them...
>
> -John
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 11:42 AM, Christie Dudley <longobord at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> This incident/response is a great opportunity to consider
>> personal responsibility.  It's always easier to find ways to put the burden
>> of responsibility for your problems on others, but it's exactly that sort of
>> mentality that kills shared spaces like we have.  While this is a really
>> clear-cut example, there are many things that happen with the space where
>> things are blurrier.  People stepping up and setting aside all the
>> accusations and posturing is the main thing that'll keep us alive.
>>
>>
>> In this instance, the rationale "I didn't feel heat" motivated the speaker
>> to engage in a complicated explanation of how someone else was responsible
>> for their problem.  Although he probably didn't realize how fantastical the
>> rationalized explanation was technically, certainly imagining he, and only
>> he, saw people ducking in and out of the dirty shop had to take some degree
>> of credulousness, particularly with as crowded an event as it was.
>>
>> Of course, a less credulous explanation would be that it takes time for
>> the heat sensation to permeate the thermal insulator of the cotton jeans,
>> and if what was leaned against was hot enough (say the rework station that
>> Lamont described that can get up to 800 deg) then it could burn right
>> through even before they felt anything.  Why lasers would produce no "hot"
>> sensation when they were slowly burning through the jeans would be beyond
>> me, although it certainly would be very localized.
>>
>>
>> Besides, if the Noisebridge pranksters were going to do anything, it's
>> much more fun to do silly stuff to people we know and are in a position to
>> retaliate in kind.  Otherwise it's just not funny.  Wanton destruction is
>> never funny either.
>>
>> Christie
>> _______
>> "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The
>> latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to
>> hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
>> -- Albert Einstein
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 4:57 PM, John Morgan <dr1ce315 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry if you got this message twice, i reply wrong the first time i
>>> guess, since it was showing up as quoted text in gmail, and therefore not
>>> displaying it.
>>>
>>> ----
>>>
>>>
>>> OK, I've thought about this whole thing a lot...
>>>
>>> I could be wrong, but I can't figure out how someone would have been able
>>> to use extreme heat (soldering iron, or hot air) without my feeling it;  I'm
>>> quite intolerant of pain, and slightly paranoid when I'm in the city (I'm
>>> from rural upstate NY originally, and currently live in a back-woods area of
>>> sonoma county).   It really sucks I didn't take a picture immediately
>>> because all the lines were soo perfectly smooth when I first saw it.  The
>>> corners were ever so slightly rounded, it was obviously made using a
>>> Reuleaux triangle. There didn't appear to be a fray at all.  My first
>>> thought when I saw it was that I must have leaned up next to something hot,
>>> but there's no way I wouldn't have felt it, then I saw the slightly rounded
>>> edges, coupled with the burn marks, i can't see it being anything other than
>>> a laser.  You can still see one of the rounded edges pretty well on the back
>>> in some of the pictures I posted...  Sorry they weren't better, my good
>>> camera is MIA.  Also, notice on my boxers, the holes go through the darkest
>>> portions of the material and not the green stripes...Here's all the relevant
>>> details that I can remember:
>>>
>>> I had about 3 big Lagunitas IPAs, But i'm a big guy, and drank that over
>>> a long period, I was far from drunk.  I remember turning behind me one time
>>> to see someone kneeling near the floor with what I believe was some kind of
>>> prizm.  It was glowing blueish;  as soon as they saw I was turned around
>>> (and I mean, quick) they took off into the tool room.  I guess I should have
>>> been more suspicious, but I certainly didn't except someone to be burning my
>>> ass with a laser.  It seems I recall seeing a prizm sitting (taped?) near/to
>>> the window coming from the tool room, with a blueish light also coming
>>> though it.  I was sitting near the trash bin/recycling bin, fairly close to
>>> the main entrance / tool room door...
>>>
>>> I was the perfect mark for many reasons, I think..  First, I was seated
>>> in one of those folding metal chairs, so i wasn't moving at all.  I'm a big
>>> guy, i could be less likely to feel it due to extra padding, half buzzed on
>>> ripper beer.  I may have been using my laptop at the time, lessening the
>>> chance I was going to get up or move suddenly.  My jean are also dark in
>>> color, excellent for using a laser on.  I was one of the closest people
>>> seated next to the tool room door and here's a very interesting detail...
>>> There seemed to be lots of people stand behind me at one point (presumably
>>> watching 5mof, near the beginning) and then suddenly nearly everyone had
>>> moved to a different spot.  (I even remember thinking to myself... damn, i
>>> took a shower today, i can't stink that bad)
>>>
>>> Also, I remember over-hearing someone say, "I wanna see the co2 laser!"
>>>
>>> I know people saw this go down..  There was a girl and guy sitting in a
>>> chair almost right behind me (although they mysteriously moved further away
>>> too, by the end of 5mof)
>>>
>>> Fess up people, even if you didn't do it, tell us what you saw go down.
>>> I wanna see a 5mof on how it was done next week!  I'll bring in my pants and
>>> you can gloat ;-)
>>>
>>> dr1ce
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Lamont Lucas <lamont at cluepon.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> John Morgan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Here's your trophy pictures...
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S423i5-DJDk
>>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/25605356@N08/sets/72157624190001205/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I note that the square hole is about the size of a QFP airflow nozzle
>>>> for the Aoyue surface mount hot air reflow station that's in the electronics
>>>> section.  Any chance you leaned against one of those benches?
>>>>
>>>> I mean, not that someone cutting your pants with a laser from a distance
>>>> isn't an awesome story, but I wonder if you're hearing hoofbeats and
>>>> thinking laser zebras.
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>
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