[Noisebridge-discuss] The future of Python class at Noisebridge
Laura Khalil
zazenergy at gmail.com
Tue Oct 5 19:22:29 UTC 2010
Hey Adit,
I took Dan's class when he just got on board (over a year ago) and really
enjoyed it. I haven't been back in an age, but glad to hear you're thinking
of keeping it alive.
One thing about Invent with Python: Al does a great job of giving an
overview of Python. However, the book is written for kids, so everything is
spelled out -- there's little to challenge the adult user to try and figure
things out on his own. Personally, I find this critical to my understanding
of a programming language.
I still think it's a great book, but may be better served if it could be
supplemented with test questions/homework problems to apply what's learned.
Laura
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 11:36 AM, aditya bhargava <aditya at wefoundland.com>wrote:
> Mark himself has said that Dive Into Python has become outdated and he
> hasn't had time to update it. I was thinking of going with Al's book for
> this class. Game dev looks like a popular way of getting into coding and I
> think it's because of the payoff at the end where you get to play your own
> game. I looked over the book and it has the kind of projects that people
> would sincerely enjoy working on. Overall I think we will have the most fun
> with that book.
>
> I'm picturing the class as a beginner's intro to programming, with Python
> as the language of choice and Invent With Python as the book of choice. I'm
> down for running the classes. If anyone else is interested in tag-teaming
> it, or if people want to come and talk about specialized topics
> intermittently, I would be down for that too.
>
> Daniel, I have questions for you about what you've covered so far...maybe
> we should take that conversation off the NB mailing list?
>
>
> Adit
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 11:06 AM, jim <jim at systemateka.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Many thanks.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 2010-10-05 at 10:21 -0700, Daniel C. Silverstein wrote:
>> > The examples in Dive Into Python are needlessly complex, and, in some
>> > cases, hopelessly outdated. Also, like Think Python, I find the order
>> > of topics to be questionable.
>> >
>> > Zed Shaw has an amusing and vitriolic rant re: Dive Into Python here:
>> > http://oppugn.us/posts/1272050135.html
>> > I don't necessarily agree with the entire rant, but I agree with the
>> > spirit of it.
>> >
>> > (Dan)
>> >
>> > On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 10:15 AM, jim <jim at systemateka.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > I'd love to know your take on Dive into Python.
>> > > Can you summarize?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Tue, 2010-10-05 at 09:30 -0700, Daniel C. Silverstein wrote:
>> > >> I should point out that, over time, I became dissatisfied with Think
>> > >> Python and Dive into Python. I have not used Al's book so I can't
>> > >> comment on it for good or bad. More recently I've been using the
>> > >> Google Python Class curriculum available here:
>> > >> http://code.google.com/edu/languages/google-python-class/
>> > >>
>> > >> (Dan)
>> > >>
>> > >> On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 8:13 AM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>> > >> >
>> > >> > The Monday night Python class began as a SF-LUG Python
>> > >> > study group with Asheesh as mentor. Asheesh left the
>> > >> > region to set up openhatch.org and Daniel took over,
>> > >> > formalizing the meeting somewhat as a class with teacher,
>> > >> > and has hung in there for over a year.
>> > >> > You can change the approach as you see fit. You might
>> > >> > take it on with someone else to share the mentoring or
>> > >> > lecture role or revert to study group format by reducing
>> > >> > the role of the mentor or whatever. If you share the role,
>> > >> > you have the plus side of better continuity (each mentor
>> > >> > can take a break) but the with price of keeping in sync
>> > >> > with each other. There's at least one other NB member
>> > >> > who's got very good Python skills with an aptitude for
>> > >> > teaching.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > I believe there are two main aspects to support:
>> > >> > * provide real-world, simple examples that demand that
>> > >> > attendees think out the problem solution in terms of
>> > >> > Python language features and Pythonic techniques.
>> > >> > * accommodate stone beginners and also people who are
>> > >> > approaching intermediate levels. The Dive into Python
>> > >> > book is available on line and might work for both
>> > >> > groups. Al Sweigart's book, Invent Your Own Computer
>> > >> > Games with Python, is currently in the Turing room
>> > >> > and I believe has been used in the Python class; it's
>> > >> > certainly suitable for beginners and to some degree
>> > >> > to extending Python skills. The book that Asheesh
>> > >> > first chose as a basis for the group is Python for
>> > >> > Software Design: How to Think Like a Computer
>> > >> > Scientist and for a while, at least, Daniel stuck
>> > >> > with it.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > http://diveintopython.org/
>> > >> > http://inventwithpython.com/
>> > >> > http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/
>> > >> >
>> > >> > (my opinions: ) I and a few others have had some
>> > >> > objections to parts of the Think Python text. I'd not use
>> > >> > it in favor of Al's book and Dive into Python.
>> > >> > I think sticking to the current schedule (Monday
>> > >> > evenings from 6:30 to 8:00) is important.
>> > >> > There are several Python groups in the bay area, and
>> > >> > one or more of their members might be willing to share
>> > >> > the leader role or come in for an occasional lecture or
>> > >> > point you to examples at times you find your own well dry.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > http://www.pygamesf.org/
>> > >> > http://www.pywebsf.org/
>> > >> > http://www.baypiggies.net/
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > On Mon, 2010-10-04 at 23:56 -0700, aditya bhargava wrote:
>> > >> >> I have a fair amount of experience in the language, but I've never
>> > >> >> been to one of these classes. What are they usually like? I can
>> > >> >> volunteer to make up cheat sheets or talk about specialized topics
>> if
>> > >> >> there's interest in that. Off the top of my head, I could talk
>> about:
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> - scientific computing in Python
>> > >> >> - working with Django
>> > >> >> - writing modules in C++ using Boost::Python and other
>> alternatives
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> Adit
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 10:11 PM, Daniel C. Silverstein
>> > >> >> <cubes at ghosthacked.net> wrote:
>> > >> >> Howdy,
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> Would anyone be interested in taking over teaching Python
>> > >> >> class at
>> > >> >> Noisebridge going forward? Python is one of the longest
>> > >> >> running
>> > >> >> classes at Noisebridge, and I've personally been teaching
>> it
>> > >> >> for the
>> > >> >> better part of the last year and a half. I think it may
>> be
>> > >> >> time for
>> > >> >> me to move on to other pursuits, but I'd rather not see
>> the
>> > >> >> class die.
>> > >> >> Historically, Python class has been on Monday evenings
>> from
>> > >> >> 6:30 to
>> > >> >> 8:00, but if anyone is interested in teaching it, I'm sure
>> > >> >> he/she
>> > >> >> would be welcome to reschedule.
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> (Dan)
>> > >> >> _______________________________________________
>> > >> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> > >> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> > >> >>
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> --
>> > >> >> wefoundland.com
>> > >> >> _______________________________________________
>> > >> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> > >> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> > >> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> _______________________________________________
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>> > >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> > >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> > >
>> > >
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> wefoundland.com
>
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