[Noisebridge-discuss] lockers for noisebridge - big enough? funding?

jim jim at well.com
Thu Feb 17 14:27:38 UTC 2011

    i don't think so. what people do with their money 
is their business, and best to keep things that way 
in general. we did have build-out discussions before 
the move to 2169 and agreed how to spend money for 
setting up the space, but there have been a variety 
of little projects for which some of us have spent 
money and time since then. Patrick is not asking 
Noisebridge to pay him back out of general funds; 
he's asking if others are willing to chip in too, to 
help him with the expense of the improvement. 

On Thu, 2011-02-17 at 01:40 -0800, girlgeek at wt.net wrote:
> Money is finite. Money that people have available to donate is finite.
> If Patrick wants to be paid back for the lockers then that is money
> that will not be going into other Noisebridge uses.  Is the consensus
> that lockers are a high enough priority that we want money to be
> funneled towards them?  That is an item for a consensus discussion.
> -Claudia
> --- sean.p.cusack at gmail.com wrote:
> From: Sean Cusack <sean.p.cusack at gmail.com>
> To: Snail <snailtsunami at gmail.com>
> Cc: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] lockers for noisebridge - big
> enough? funding?
> Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 01:00:23 -0800
> I dunno - I kinda think storage in general is a good thing, no? Some
> of the proposed scenarios for how the locker system could
> theoretically be abused sound a little FUD-dy and probably kind of
> unrealistic. Not saying it can't or it won't happen, but its super
> unlikely IMO.
> Also, if you really don't like what someone has in their locker, or
> could have in their locker, or what someone has forgotten to take out
> of their locker, we've got a dremel in the space with some cutting
> wheels (as well as a lock picking meetup) - so have at it! If peeps
> don't like the outside of the lockers being opaque, why not just
> "hack" the fronts of them with acrylic panels? If people don't like
> locks, how about plugging the lock hole with something? I'm sure the
> lockers would eventually get hacked in a way that would make everyone
> in the space like using them (you know...kind of like everything else
> we have).
> I think lockers are probably a good idea, especially since it sounds
> like Patrick is nice enough to front the coinage. No cost to NB, no
> cost to members, potential benefit for all. *thumbs up*.
> Sean
> On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 12:10 AM, Snail <snailtsunami at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>         On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 11:15 PM, Patrick Keys
>         <citizenkeys at gmail.com> wrote:
>                 The lockers would be opaque.  I think everybody at
>                 Noisebridge values
>                 their right of anonymity.  Not worrying about other
>                 people seeing what's
>                 on your personal shelf or messing with it seems like a
>                 benefit.
>         What do people want to store at noisebridge that they really
>         need to keep hidden, which can't be stored on a harddrive?
>         That's kind of worrisome.
>         Maybe an open, public space is not the best place to keep
>         private, personal possessions. -- People need to keep their
>         tools and whatknot for hacking in the space, but need they be
>         SECRET? If you're going to use it in the space, where it will
>         be seen by everyone, why does it have to be STORED in secrecy?
>         -- And if it's not going to be used in the space, why is it
>         there, taking up space in a locker?
>         Plus, this is about right to privacy, not anonymity -- a shelf
>         is anonymous but not private, unless you put your name on your
>         belongings (or someone dusts for fingerprints and has a copy
>         of yours to match; DNA TESTS!!). If you don't believe me, just
>         look at the fact that there are constantly tons of possessions
>         swirling around the space whose owners are unknown, sometimes
>         resulting to e-mails asking who has borrowed their stuff, even
>         though everything is in plain view. This is very much not
>         about valuing peoples anonymity and more about concern that
>         people are doing secret things in an open space. You won't
>         necessarily reveal someone's secret identity by stealing their
>         wire cutters or PS2.
>         I don't think anyone has a guarantee of privacy at noisebridge
>         -- if you are there, someone will drop by and look over your
>         shoulder and ask what's going on, because that's why you are
>         there (to have people talk to you and get an excuse to talk
>         about your project). Lockers wouldn't really guarantee privacy
>         unless everyone TRUSTED the person using the locker. We only
>         have what privacy we do when people are considerate AND trust
>         we are not doing something unsavory; but if people were
>         concerned someone was storing something unsavory in a locker,
>         it wouldn't be long before someone picked the lock or forced
>         it open just to be safe.
>         Most importantly, to me, locked lockers would make me feel
>         less safe because suddenly part of the open space is not open.
>         I feel safe at noisebridge because EVERYTHING is open (save
>         the bathrooms, for ~15 minutes at a time), and anything bad
>         that could happen to someone or anything unsafe which would be
>         stored could be found by the community, as people eventually
>         wade through the piles and piles of junk.
>         (To be honest, you're probably guaranteed a good amount of
>         privacy if you leave something under a pile of junk and people
>         are too APATHETIC to check -- but it still gives people the
>         option of securing their own surroundings and safety.)
>         Plus, people tend to leave a lot of crap at the space and
>         never throw it out, so periodically the locks would just have
>         to be broken so the contents could be tossed as the lockers
>         just give people a chance to exercise even more of their
>         packrat tendencies.
>         You know, if anything, I would describe noisebridge as a hole
>         for packrats >_> maybe giving people the chance to store even
>         MORE things at the space is the opposite of what the community
>         needs. I feel like half of the space is already consumed by
>         objects: the members' shelves area, the area behind those
>         shelves (is that more members' shelves?), the entire wall with
>         the windows facing Mission St., the full wall of bikes, the
>         construction things in the kitchen, more shelves in the
>         not-Turing classroom, stuff by the tea room storing things for
>         the kitchen (because right beside the kitchen is storing
>         construction things).... Now that I think about it, where the
>         hell are these lockers going to stand among all this other
>         stuff?
>         Of course, it's been a month or so since I've been in the
>         space, so maybe some of this is cleared up or organized by now
>         (hahaha yeah right, I will buy everyone BEER* if you can make
>         me eat those words).
>         *Not guaranteed to be expensive or good-tasting beer. I'm on a
>         budget.
>         -- 
>         -Snailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnails
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