[Noisebridge-discuss] Stacks of dirty dishes

Fri Jan 14 15:14:54 UTC 2011

   hmmm, kelly's suggesting both rather than either/or. 
i like. 
   how about more formal assignment of chores? each 
week or each month chore duties are assigned to people 
(regardless of membership, maybe with emphasis on 
non-payers). seems ultra-reasonable to me. no need to 
enforce anything, shame will do that in some cases, 
probably enough cases. some chores, like taking 
garbage out, might be assigned to a team of two people 
who are usually there on the appropriate evenings (and 
garbage back in to a different team of two who are 
usually there on the appropriate mornings). 
   as i'm usually home in bed at meeting time, maybe 
someone could add this idea to the discussion. 

On Thu, 2011-01-13 at 18:06 -0800, Kelly wrote:
> I noticed that there is now a compost bin in the kitchen. If we can
> encourage the composting of plates and get compostable cups I would
> support a disposable dishware option at Noisebridge.
> 
> Also, regarding the paid/indentured labor option, I have always
> wondered what we as a space have against this. We pay to have our
> garbage removed. It's not that different to me to pay someone to clean
> the dishes and the kitchen. Ditto goes for general housekeeping, but I
> think there's a much stronger argument to be made that people will do
> that voluntarily, and I think that our threshold for mess is much
> higher there. Whenever we talk about this there's a brief surge in
> well-meaning people who don't mind doing dishes, but I don't see any
> reason not to have someone whose job it is too. Furthermore it doesn't
> have to be a professional. I think we're all ok with a
> not-quite-professional kitchen cleaning as long as it happens
> regularly and reliably.
> 
> I'm going to put this on the agenda for next week's meeting.
> 
> -Kelly
> 
> On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 17:46, meredith scheff <satiredun at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I agree with al. I think the fewer dishes the better. Maybe we can put paper
> > plates in the vending machine?
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 4:53 PM, Albert Sweigart <asweigart at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Oh crap, the intern! I completely forgot! He's been locked in the
> >> basement for a couple weeks. Whew, boy I don't know how that slipped
> >> my mind.
> >>
> >> Though he needs to clean the basement before he can start on the
> >> dishes. It smells like something died down there.
> >>
> >> -Al
> >>
> >> On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Lilia Markham <liliakai at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > Don't we have an intern now? I don't remember his name so I will call
> >> > him
> >> > Intern. Can we make Intern wash dishes?
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 3:48 PM, Frantisek Apfelbeck
> >> > <algoldor at yahoo.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Message: 32
> >> >> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 10:14:09 -0800
> >> >> From: Albert Sweigart <asweigart at gmail.com>
> >> >> Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] Stacks of dirty dishes
> >> >> To: noisebridge-discuss <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
> >> >> Message-ID:
> >> >>    <AANLkTimYv8vuJarbC_9=3cCwdFg4_UOTk7BiqnJjbOdS at mail.gmail.com>
> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >> >>
> >> >> I'm not sure I've seen the sinks not filled with dirty dishes more
> >> >> times than I can count on one hand in the last several months. This is
> >> >> kind of a tricky problem to solve, and I thought once the dishwasher
> >> >> got set up it would abate a little, but it hasn't. It's a standard
> >> >> "tragedy of the commons" problem: everyone has incentive to use the
> >> >> dishes but nobody has as much incentive to keep them clean.
> >> >>
> >> >> I've given it some thought, and I think the only long-term solution is
> >> >> to move the dirty dishes from the sink to the dishwasher, wash them,
> >> >> then put them in a box and drop them off at Thrift Town (about a block
> >> >> from Noisebridge). We can then switch to disposable plateware if we
> >> >> run out of dishes (which are a lot easier to clean up).
> >> >>
> >> >> I'll volunteer to do this.
> >> >>
> >> >> >>> Please do not, read below <<<<
> >> >>
> >> >> Chore wheels and constant reminders won't work in the long-term or for
> >> >> our particular space (there's too many people.) Elaborate technical
> >> >> fixes that we can invent aren't practical. Appointing or even hiring
> >> >> someone(s) to keep the sink cleared isn't something anyone wants to
> >> >> sign up for or we can really afford over the long-term.
> >> >>
> >> >> And the Thrift Town solution regulates itself nicely; if people care
> >> >> enough about having dishes over paper plates they'll stick around, if
> >> >> not, we'll have fewer dishes that need to be taken care of and it
> >> >> becomes easier to keep them clean.
> >> >>
> >> >> I've thought it through, but if anyone has solutions that are
> >> >> long-term, practical, and cost-effective then email this thread. I'll
> >> >> post a sign about this policy in the kitchen for people who aren't on
> >> >> the mailing list.
> >> >>
> >> >> -Al
> >> >>
> >> >> Hi to All!
> >> >> I appreciate that this was brought up to discussion but I strongly
> >> >> disagree with
> >> >> the solution and I've
> >> >> not seen this post on Tastebridge discussion list were it certainly
> >> >> belongs -
> >> >> the are not culprits but
> >> >> stewards of the place. Dishes has to be cleaned on regular basis, it
> >> >> was
> >> >> managed
> >> >> before it can be
> >> >>
> >> >> managed again. It is not easy but possible and also necessary.
> >> >>
> >> >> Getting rid of the dishes will cause sever problems to the Tastebridge
> >> >> which is
> >> >> currently
> >> >>
> >> >> one of the most active groups in the space and one of the few which is
> >> >> promoting
> >> >> Noisebridge
> >> >> "out there" on regular bases. Switching for disposable dishes is not
> >> >> ecological
> >> >> and it will just not do.
> >> >> Kitchen without dishes is basically not a kitchen. Do not forget that
> >> >> to
> >> >> buy
> >> >> knew ones, which would
> >> >> happen sooner than later you spend a lots of money. It's like
> >> >> suggesting
> >> >> getting
> >> >> rid of soldering irons
> >> >>
> >> >> in an electronic lab which is certainly sometimes dirty and it is not
> >> >> after the
> >> >> Monday classes, quite the
> >> >> contrary, it's quite shining and the same applies most of the time when
> >> >> the
> >> >> kitchen is used for
> >> >>
> >> >> cooking and brewing classes.
> >> >>
> >> >> I will post on the Tastebridge mailing list this email knowing however
> >> >> that it's
> >> >> the Tastebridge people
> >> >> who in a long term keep the kitchen in a working order. However I'm
> >> >> sure
> >> >> that
> >> >> they will try to find the
> >> >> solution even if it takes some time. It may be, that we have
> >> >> accumulated
> >> >> too
> >> >> many dishes but it is people
> >> >>
> >> >> who use the kitchen on regular bases and have a proper manners to
> >> >> decide
> >> >> what is
> >> >> worthy and what is
> >> >>
> >> >> not because they have quite good idea. People who do not use the
> >> >> kitchen
> >> >> and do
> >> >> not know what is
> >> >>
> >> >> important for the classes, five minutes of fame dinners, underground
> >> >> markets
> >> >> etc. should step back and
> >> >>
> >> >> leave it on the ones who are involved in activities above to work on
> >> >> it.
> >> >>
> >> >> I hope that this situation will be sort out, so please try to come up
> >> >> with
> >> >> reasonably working solutions
> >> >> because as a chef and brewer you have to have proper dishes in the
> >> >> kitchen, it
> >> >> is as it is.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Sincerely,
> >> >>
> >> >> Frantisek
> >> >>
> >> >> PS Based on the logic above we should close both bathrooms because they
> >> >> are also
> >> >> quite dirty
> >> >> quite often.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >> >
> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Ladycartoonist.com
> >
> > ___________
> >
> > A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a
> > hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build
> > a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate,
> > act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a
> > computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
> > Specialization is for insects.
> >
> > -Robert A. Heinlein
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> 