[Noisebridge-discuss] economics

Ben ben at sixgirls.org
Tue Nov 22 00:14:19 UTC 2011

Hi Joseph,

I am curious to your input on the following opinion since we are 
discussing economics on list:

I fail to make connections much of the time. I once Googled the phrase 
from a historic trolling incident in a movie (the blues brothers) and came 
upon a thread.

Although the thread was low in content and high in misspellings it led me 
to read up on what Fannie Mae was.

From that I learned that Fannie Mae was created during FDR's new deal 
seemingly to assist getting America out of the great depression of the 
30s, to get banks lending again and giving Americans a chance to own 

At the time learning that in context of the housing bubble and crash of 
2007, subsequent learning of what derivatives were, what subprime mortages 
were, what predatory lending was and the goverment bailout using tax 
dollars (but really just bond sales to China, more insanity IMHO) and I 
came to the conclusion from a constitutional perspective that the 
federalists, Alexander Hamilton for example already knew and had a 
compelling reason for never letting their vision of a government grow to 
the incestuous behemoth we currently exist with.

That the government would help people get mortages (get into debt tied to 
land they *own*) and other "really smart guys" would be able to take 
abstractions of that debt and move it around like a Times Square shell 
game (before Disney) struck me as so insane I could not understand how 
anyone with an inkling of the big picture was not screaming foul and 
making calls to get the townspeople together along with the tar and 

I will allow however that I myself may just be reactionary and grossly 
uneducated and completely wrong.

What I'm really waiting for is for someone to come and tell me that, that 
my conclusion is wrong. I took an economics 101 course years ago. I did 
not retain that knowledge but I do know what I read and tested on is not 
anything near what we have now.

I'm curious what you think. I assume most community members at NB are 
college educated and/or very smart. Conservative or liberal there are 
things that have come to be that just cannot be made to appear right no 
matter how they are dressed up from my forming perspective. The occupy 
movement perhaps is based on those ideas and if it is not it should be.

The slogan I never heard "Build Infrastructure Not Wealth"

And people should not desire wealth they should desire knowledge which may 
just be another form of infrastructure. Human infrastructure because an 
investment in uneducated meat is just BP's investment in the next million 
year's stash of oil when the current biomass goes under for processing.

Surely there must be a better forum than NB discuss for this claptrap but 
I am beginnging to type much faster thanks to it. :P

Mon, 21 Nov 2011, Joseph Brenner wrote:

> Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:48:38 -0800
> From: Joseph Brenner <doomvox at gmail.com>
> To: Olya K <krasnykh at gmail.com>
> Cc: NoiseBridge Discuss <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] economics
> Olya K <krasnykh at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Does anyone know of a good online course in economics/macroeconomics?
> Over at Paul Krugman's blog:
>  http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/
> He has a box on the right labeled:
>  "Some links to stuff I’ve written bearing on macroeconomic policy. "
> I'd suggest starting there.
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