[Noisebridge-discuss] Paid for cleaners, have they ever come by the space?

Just Duncan justduncan at gmail.com
Tue Nov 22 23:59:30 UTC 2011

Hey Liz-

Can I ask a favor?  I would really appreciate  your directly including me
among your email's recipients when you communicate with me.  Thanks.

I really appreciate your response as it signals a major miscommunication.
 I made two matter-of-fact statements highlighting the major cleaning that
I've witnessed and, by omission, that which I have not.

I feel frustrated and a bit attacked because you seem to have projected a
lot more onto what I wrote than what is there.  You also seem to have made
some flawed assumptions about me and my being a part of Noisebridge.  Those
seem to be coloring your understanding of what I wrote and how I feel, not
fair to either of us.  Further, those are now being perceived by others as
being my feelings-- *which they are not.*

My feeling resentful??  <puzzled look>  No, that's not something I feel at
towards Noisebridge, nor a sentiment I encounter often in my life in
general.  It just is such a selfish, destructive emotion, such a "victim"
thing, that brings no love into the world.  Thanksgiving and sharing and
caring and creating are what spring to mind when I think of Noisebridge.

Wanting to be paid for what I considered just doing what I could to
contribute to Noisebridge?  No, sorry but I've never felt that way or
considered that.  Frankly, I can't understand how you would imagine I feel
that way—  It's Noisebridge!  I love Noisebridge!  I'm just one among many
who have kept the place clean and it has all been of my own joy & free
will.  I will admit that I like to try and improve my surroundings and try
to leave places at least 10% better than when I found them.

Is there some experience you know of, of my "whining and acting like a
dick" when cleaning?  I can't recall one, nor can others in the space I've
asked about it.  Clearly, however, you have that view of me— which would be
nice to reconcile.

I am far from perfect, but I get the sense you really don't know me very
well and/or haven't updated your initial impressions now that I've turned
my situation around and settled.  I'm not feral, scared, and living on the
street anymore worrying about where to sleep, stay dry, stay warm.  I have
an apartment and am a kind, generous, caring human-being.  I'm kind, and I
smile and laugh a lot.  I'm more wise than book-smart or street-smart; I'm
very aware of what all I know and what I don't know.  I'm honest, I am
fair, I don't lie, I don't steal.  I am strong, tenacious and  persevere.
 Wrapped in hope and faith that "Way will show," I am love inside.

How well do you know me?  I know I wish I knew you better and am slowly
getting to know you more and more.  Disliking someone just because we've
made up our mind not only colors our view and consumes unnecessary energy,
but deprives us of opportunities and limits our growth.

Btw, lest your think otherwise, let me be clear:  I like you and think
you're rather awesome  (which makes it so important to me to clear up this
miscommunication).  Thank you.

Regarding the cleaners, I spoke with Jurgen and he did see them in the
space, answering my question.  However, as someone who was regularly in the
space during that period of time, I noticed no particularly "cleaned" week
over any other.

If Noisebridge does decide to continue with outside cleaners,  I think
there are a couple ideas that will allow them to have a greater impact.
 Many of these have been mentioned already and will, no doubt, be discussed
this evening.


On Nov 18, 2011, at 10:27 AM, Liz Henry <liz at bookmaniac.org> wrote:

On 11/17/11 1:38 AM, Duncan wrote:

Unless Wish or Cynthia were being paid, I don't think we've had cleaners.

I know I wasn't paid.

Who be these cleaners, when did they show up, and what did they do?  Any


Here's some advice for you Duncan.  If you want to mop or clean out of
the goodness of your heart, but could use 10 bucks and are resentful
that you're working for no pay?  Do the work, then go around the space
and ask for a tip or personal donation for your efforts.   You are free
to do that.  As everyone is.

If you are resentful that you cleaned sometimes, and that some random
cleaner crew came over once a month for the last 3 months to mop and
scrub the bathroom for pay because a meeting voted to experiment with
that, then, my advice is that you should not do things you are resentful
about.   Hopefully you can parse that sentence.

More advice unasked for.  The more you try to stir shit up on the list,
and are confrontational while at the same time being both pedantic and
wrong, the more people will not like to help you, interact with you, and
so on at the space.

I can't take you seriously at all at this point. Especially after
reading your heinous and stupid emails to treasurer at nb about "torr".
(Someone needs to "accidentally" cc those to the whole list, btw.)
However, if you want to mop the floor and can manage to do it without
whining or acting like a total dick, feel free to ask me personally for
money and I will pay you for doing the chores.

- Liz

Liz Henry
liz at bookmaniac.org

"Without models, it's hard to work; without a context, difficult to
evaluate; without peers, nearly impossible to speak." -- Joanna Russ
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