[Noisebridge-discuss] Hologlyphic-Movie/Noisbridge grant funding re-application

Danny O'Brien danny at spesh.com
Tue Nov 29 05:44:12 UTC 2011

Hi Walter,

Thanks for replying to all the questions. I'll probably be taking notes
tomorrow, and can help you with your item and guiding you through the
meeting. If you'd like to talk to me about it before hand, I'm on +1 408
480 3412, and will be in the space from about 6PM onwards (and possibly
during the day too).

Here's what I suspect will get through consensus easily:

1) You mentioning Noisebridge as a potential venue for your artwork and
workshops in your letter.
2) You using your existing language talking about how great Noisebridge is
(and you make us sound great!) which can help your application.
3) A suggestion that part of the grant will go to remunerating your venue,
with the implication that the venue will be Noisebridge.

I don't even think this would necessarily need consensus, because you can
use language that's provisional on us reaching consensus later on (if you
get the grant).

Here's  stuff that will bog things down:

1) Any implication that you're acting on behalf of Noisebridge, or
representing it.
2) Solicitations for money that would be explicitly earmarked for
3) Any kind of commitment that Noisebridge would be able to secure your
project during the period.
4) Any kind of commitment that Noisebridge would be able to dedicate a huge
amount of space for this (I imagine this will take up the bulk of the
discussion, because we've never actually dedicated space before).

So just to be clear (sorry email is not always the best medium for these
discussions), the original letter of intent implies that the grant would be
to Noisebridge, but I understand that now there is a separate organization
handling this. This is good!

Right now, the existing letter of intent has elements of the second list,
which I think you don't really need to be in there, and is probably going
to unnecessarily delay things for you.

My recommendation would be for you to re-write a letter of intent that more
specifically use Indy Arts and Media as your companion organization, and
stick to mentioning Noisebridge only as a venue for your artwork and
workshops . My guess is that there's lots of your existing language
describing how great Noisebridge is that you can use, and that language
will still help your application.

I don't think you need to rewrite it for tomorrow, but we might have to
work on it after the meeting has narrowed down what might be said on
Noisebridge's behalf.

I think the key thing is that Noisebridge as a group is, unusually perhaps,
almost always happy to host projects for whatever use, but is very hard to
tie down specific commitments, even in return for delicious money. My
feeling is the group tends to end up preferring to minimise the level of
its commitments to maximise the flexibility of how its gets used.


On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 11:45 AM, rachel lyra hospodar
<rachelyra at gmail.com>wrote:

> I will not have time to look at these documents until Tuesday meeting.
> I didn't see a clear answer from you either way but from your email it
> sounds like yes, you do want noisebridge to handle grant money on your
> behalf.  Even though the bulk of your fiscal sponsorship is being handled
> by another organization (which is totally helpful), the fact that you are
> asking us to receive and disburse funds for you means that you are *also*
> seeking to use noisebridge as a fiscal sponsor. I'm glad someone else is
> doing the heavy lifting but that doesn't mean that noisebridge can enter
> lightly into a contractual agreement about this sizeable sum of money.
> R.
> mediumreality.com
> On Nov 28, 2011 11:13 AM, "Walter Funk" <marybraindoe at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>  Hi,
>> Indy Arts and myself have a draft agreement, which will be finalized
>> tomorrow afternoon.
>> Also wanted to re-afirm that I'd like to ask for consensus at tomorrow's
>> meeting. Consensus on sending the letter of intent, as mentioned in an
>> earlier post. This was tried and miss-communicated at the last meeting. The
>> letter would be sent Friday, the 2nd.
>> Someone from Indy Arts & Media be at Tuesday's meeting, they can answer
>> details on the fiscal sponsorship and I can answer details on the 3D
>> project.
>> The draft agreement is linked below on my website, I'll update it and the
>> new letter of intent tomorrow:
>> http://www.hologlyphics.com/Fiscal_Sponsorship_Contract_DRAFT.rtf
>> From Indy Arts & Media:
>> "We have a standard contract we use. Please note that this is a FINAL
>> DRAFT. It is not complete. We are actually having our lawyer finalize
>> it tomorrow afternoon. It is a very thorough document and its purpose
>> is to ensure that everyone obeys the law and spends the money on what
>> it is intended for.
>> There are a few things in here that we are still sorting out, notably
>> bank fees and insurance, but otherwise, this is a standard document
>> that all our sponsored affiliates sign. It is based in part on
>> contracts used by other local fiscal sponsors, such as Intersection
>> for the Arts, SOMArts, etc."
>> In terms of clarity regarding on who is the legal recipiant of the
>> funding, again from IAM:
>> ' IAM would be the legal recipient of the funding. People(Grant sources)
>> would be
>> giving to Independent Arts & Media and getting their IRS letter from
>> us. IAM would be contractually obligated to direct donations it
>> receives for Hologlyphics to Noise Bridge, which would be the
>> "grantee" signatory on the contract. IAM would be the "grantor." '
>> I hope this helps achieve some clarity on the financial sponsorship.
>> Anyhow Indy Art does have a staff for this work, which NB does not. This
>> should work out great.
>> Please let us know if there's any questions or feedback on the agreement.
>> I'll post the finalized version of it and also the letter of intent
>> tomorrow.
>> Also feel free to ask more questions about the 3D video without glasses
>> concepts.
>> Thanks,
>> Walter
>>   ------------------------------
>> *From:* rachel lyra hospodar <rachelyra at gmail.com>
>> *To:* Walter Funk <marybraindoe at yahoo.com>
>> *Cc:* "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net" <
>> noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>> *Sent:* Friday, November 25, 2011 12:45 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Hologlyphic-Movie/Noisbridge grant
>> funding re-application
>>  If you are expecting noisebridge to act as a conduit for the funds then
>> I would expect at the least an agreement like the example.Maybe you want to
>> work with indy media to help craft this agreement?  Its not like we have a
>> staff for them to work with.  If they want to suggest a different starting
>> point than the noisetor example that is totally fine.
>> The example I have given you is what noisebridge is currently using as a
>> process for this.
>> As a user of noisbridge you are free to refine that process, in
>> collaboration with other groups if you like.
>> My concern is that we spell out what is happening before we agree to it.
>> I still do not see a clear answer in your message on whether or not you
>> expect noisebridge to act as a legal conduit for your funds. On the basis
>> of that lack of clarity alone, I have serious reservations about this
>> project.  The clarity we achieve here is, legally, the difference between
>> fiscal sponsorship and money laundering.
>> R.
>> mediumreality.com
>> On Nov 25, 2011 12:29 PM, "Walter Funk" <marybraindoe at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Part will go to Noisebridge as a compensatory donation, but most will be
>> distributed for the 3D project costs.
>>  During the 4 month period where a dedicated studio is rented for
>> finalization, for this period only will I receive any 'artists pay' out of
>> the funds. This is only to cover my living cost in that time period, making
>> myself available daily in the dedicated studio space for pulling people's
>> artwork together for the show. Most of the funds will go to workshops,
>> equipment/materials, show production, etc.
>> Spoke today with Indy Arts, we came up with two options for an agreement.
>>  There are fiscal sponsor agreements that already exist for this kind of
>> thing. Indy Arts can help find an appropriate agreement and help modify to
>> work with Noisetor, etc.
>>  The other option we talked about, which may be better, is to have them
>> still be the fiscal sponsor and let it be a pilot for Noisbridge to learn
>> about handling these types of projects. They said it's not rocket scientist
>> stuff, their experience could help Noisbridge develop a process that works,
>> and be used for future projects. Especially with the newer non-profit
>> status.
>>  I'd be up for either type of agreement. The second one seems easier and
>> more beneficial to Noisebridge in the long run. Again more time for 3D,
>> etc. Some history of this 3D project linked below.
>>  Any thoughts?
>> thanks
>> Walter
>> Some Hologlyphic history:
>> http://www.hologlyphics.com/history_holo.htm
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/hologlyphics/5311070577/in/photostream
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/hologlyphics/5311659484/in/photostream
>> New color work taken at Stanford with Eyeball added:
>> http://www.hologlyphics.com/Hologlyphic_Saturn_Eye.jpg
>> Tech info:
>> http://www.hologlyphics.com/Hologlyphics_6803-51.pdf
>>   ------------------------------
>> *From:* Rachel Lyra Hospodar <rachel at mediumreality.com>
>> *To:* Walter Funk <marybraindoe at yahoo.com>
>> *Cc:* "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net" <
>> noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 24, 2011 11:51 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Hologlyphic-Movie/Noisbridge grant
>> funding re-application
>> As far as the non-fiscal stuff goes, it all sounds fine.  I am still not
>> clear on the structure of your money stuff.  If money needs to be
>> granted/disbursed *by* noisebridge, at all, then we need to craft an
>> agreement.  If you are using part of the grant money to pay noisebridge
>> dues or make compensatory donations *to* NB, via another financial
>> entity, then that isn't necessary.
>> thanks
>> R.
>> On 11/23/2011 3:15 PM, Walter Funk wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> >    I looked at the Noisetor Wiki, thanks.
>> >
>> >  There is a fiscal sponsor for this project, an umbrella group,who will
>> > handle the finances such as taxes, also reporting to the grant-maker if
>> > funding is approved.
>> >
>> >  They are very experienced, working with non-profits and artists if
>> > part of their mission.
>> >
>> > http://artsandmedia.net/programs-2
>> >
>> >  Would it help to Noisebridge to have them do all that? They can also
>> > help with agreements, etc.
>> >
>> >    Seems like more focus on making cool 3D stuff.
>> >
>> > ~Walter
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > *From:* rachel lyra hospodar <rachel at mediumreality.com>
>> > *To:* Rubin Abdi <rubin at starset.net>
>> > *Cc:* Walter Funk <marybraindoe at yahoo.com>;
>> > "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net"
>> > <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>> > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 23, 2011 2:47 PM
>> > *Subject:* Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Hologlyphic-Movie/Noisbridge grant
>> > funding re-application
>> >
>> > This is a fiscal sponsorship to the tune of $30k...that is a significant
>> > financial relationship you are proposing.
>> >
>> > It's a good thing we have started developing a framework for this, from
>> > Noisetor.  We made Noisetor creators jump through a bunch of hoops to
>> > make sure that we have a sound agreement regarding the financial
>> > obligations incurred in such a relationship.
>> >
>> > I think it's pretty important to hammer out that kind of agreement.
>> >
>> > If the tone of the discussion next week is good, it probably could be
>> > done in parallel with your letter of intent, as long as you are under
>> > the understanding that the sponsorship may not be approved if consensus
>> > is not reached.
>> >
>> > Please check out the noisetor wiki page if you need a starting point for
>> > what kind of agreement i am talking about.  Even trusted longstanding
>> > members of the community can become a little lax in fulfilling their
>> > obligations, and for everyone's peace of mind it's important to spell
>> > out what those obligations are ahead of time.
>> >
>> > R.
>> >
>> >
>> > On 11/23/2011 2:30 PM, Rubin Abdi wrote:
>> >> Hi Walter.
>> >>
>> >> Last night at the meeting you wanted to talk about your project and
>> this
>> >> letter of intent to be indorsed by Noisebridge. You were asked to hold
>> >> off talking about it till a more appropriate time in the meeting.
>> >>
>> >> It seems as though it wasn't clear to Jim or Shannon or anyone else at
>> >> the meeting that you actually wanted to bring this action up as a
>> >> discussion item, to be consented on at our next meeting (Nov 29th). If
>> >> you remember we spoke about this after the meeting was over, and that
>> >> generally through miscommunication we never brought it up formally as a
>> >> discussion item. Since you have a due date to work worth, you wanted to
>> >> know if there was any way to bring this item up for consensus on the
>> >> 29th without having it actually getting discussed at the meeting that
>> >> just passed.
>> >>
>> >> My advice to you was to bring up this mishap on the discussion list and
>> >> see if anyone would object to you pushing for consensus next week by
>> >> holding discussion for the item on the mailing list, in addition to the
>> >> actually item you want to achieve consensus on. However I don't see
>> text
>> >> from your previous email regarding any of that, nor are you even asking
>> >> for consensus.
>> >>
>> >> Did I miss something? When we were chatting?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
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>> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >
>> >
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