[Noisebridge-discuss] Sat night: There's good crazy & not-so-good crazy

Mon Sep 5 07:26:59 UTC 2011

I can't believe belligerent, obnoxious people needed to be removed from
Noisebridge and no one called me! Danny, Do you want to collaborate on a
phone tree application?

On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 9:36 PM, Danny O'Brien <danny at spesh.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 9:29 PM, jim <jim at systemateka.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>    Terrific report, specially the ending!
>>
>>    Seems to me good that we all get comfy with the
>> idea of gathering together to heavy out people when
>> such become clearly obnoxious. I'm guessing that
>> obnoxiousness occurs mainly in the night times, yes?
>> There are people who are regularly there and
>> unobnoxious at those times?
>>
>>
> That's one of the things I think (night, early morning)
>
> There's a mailing list adminned by Mitch and Rob 1.0 for the people who
> spend a lot of time at night in the space, but it hasn't really been used or
> spread around.
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/night
>
> d.
>
>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 2011-09-04 at 21:06 -0700, Just Duncan wrote:
>> > Things have slowly been getting crazier this week, escalating
>> > to the police being called last night.
>> >
>> > In order descending order of severity and risk are:
>> >
>> > (1)  Jay (J?) who is belligerent, disclosed he has schizophrenia but
>> > won't take medications for it, has auditory hallucinations, paranoid
>> > delusions, and has basically moved into Noisebridge every night and
>> > day.  He disappeared for a few days last week and then reappeared with
>> > scrapes and cuts to his face, saying he had been arrested and beat up
>> > by police for doing "mime" in Union Square, was 5150'd at SF General,
>> > and
>> > "escaped" (his claim) when the drugs they had injected him with wore
>> > off.
>> > The tipping point is that he drinks heavily and generally sees NB as a
>> > place to come by, get smashed and party, interrupt work, ramble on
>> > with
>> > his latest drama, and swing from being civil to belligerent and
>> > threatening.
>> >
>> > Last night he was very intoxicated and, as I sat next to Kayla on the
>> > couch eating a burrito and enjoying the 1 beer I got with it, he came
>> > over to get a laptop off the table and wanted to apologize for an
>> > outburst he had at me earlier.  All fine and good until he decided he
>> > wanted a hug from me, comes over into me sitting down after I'd
>> > verbally thanked
>> > but declined, stumbles on a power cord, and drunkenly slurs/knocks
>> > into me...
>> > knocking the newly opened beer in my hand and splashing it all into
>> > the keyboard of  Kayla's Macbook Pro laptop.  Seeing it was his
>> > intoxication that had
>> > caused it, Kayla was furious as her computer was dead by appearance.
>> > She called the police and went downstairs to wait for them with Ramon.
>> > Prior to leaving, Ramon talked with Rolf about asking J to leave and
>> > Rolf asked if I would assist.  I agreed.  Alex was also enlisted and
>> > very rigid about the police not coming in.  I went down to find Kayla
>> > to
>> > see if that would work for her, but she and Ramon had gone down to
>> > 17th
>> > street to find police and were no where to be found.
>> >
>> > Returning upstairs, NB was clearly emptying out.  Alex said he was
>> > about to
>> > leave with Stephen and Mek, said it was then or never.  We all agreed
>> > and
>> >  J was asked to leave... which turned into him becoming belligerent,
>> > refusing to leave.  Meanwhile, I left them them trying to convince him
>> > to leave and was
>> > pulled to go down stairs to handle another person of concern.  This
>> > was
>> > successful and is detailed below.*
>> >
>> > Returning upstairs again, it was clear that Alex, Ramon, Rolf et al.
>> > had failed.  I was going to stay, but frankly didn't/don't feel safe
>> > being alone at NB with him.  I left, only to encounter the police
>> > outside with Ramon, Mek, Stephen, Kayla, and Alex.
>> > Kayla wanted them to remove him and get his name for her; she called
>> > the
>> > police.  Alex didn't want police to come up stairs, even though there
>> > was no way to remove him and he, himself, had failed to remove him.
>> >  The officers were an older-school/rookie-- but even the older-school
>> > had the new police view of "look, we know you're a collective and you
>> > don't
>> > want outside involvement ever.  Unless someone is dead, you can't have
>> > it both ways and we're very hesitant to go inside until you've all
>> > consensused on it and agreed to let us come in."  The younger rookie
>> > was
>> > clearly new and naive, telling Kala to file a claim under her renters
>> > policy or her parents homeowner policy... i.e. he had no clue that
>> > people might not have such things.  I proposed the compromise between
>> > everyone (Alex, Kayla, police) that we were OK for now, but if we
>> > needed
>> > help further would call them back.  Kala left upset that when a person
>> > calls for police help from inside Noisebridge that "police" aren't
>> > allowed in when things are out of control. Neither she nor I are any
>> > great fans of the PD, but they do have times and places where they are
>> > appropriate.
>> >
>> > Moreover, no one here knew who to call (e.g. a Board Member).  This
>> > was
>> > very frustrating as J stayed the night and is still here when I came
>> > back at 10 this morning.  The man is quasi-psychotic, is almost always
>> > wearing a knit cap for id., paranoid, and clueless... he was playing
>> > punk acid rock in the kitchen Friday night on the laptop, even after
>> > Rolf politely asked him to turn in down.  I, personally, do not feel
>> > safe with him in the space... and some basic level of personal
>> > security
>> > is-- per Milo's argument at last week's meeting-- in my view, a
>> > reasonable expectation of NB, along with the door working and Internet
>> > access.
>> >
>> >
>> > (2) Some guy named "Evan (aka Taemon?... "I'm the new guy that brought
>> > beer!" at 3pm on Wednesday) has recently been showing up and always
>> > with alcohol in tow.  Just for the record, I've got no problem with
>> > alcohol (I had some of one last night with my burrito), or other
>> > substance usage.  It is only a problem if people are using it and not
>> > taking responsibility for their behavior and others in the space.
>> > Getting angry or choosing vent frustrations with others while
>> > intoxicated isn't productive; having the judgment to know when it is
>> > best if they remove themselves from the space is.  I'm particularly
>> > bad, personally, at reading the difference between trolling and anger
>> > with someone who intoxicated or in a different "reality" space than
>> > myself.  "Taemon" was a pure accelerant to J's drinking/drugging &
>> > general  craziness/instability the other night.  Both were loud,
>> > constantly inserting themselves into conversations not involving them,
>> > while saying nothing of relevance. Taemon has spent the night both
>> > times I've seen him this
>> > week; I woke him on the couch at 11am this morning.
>> >
>> > As someone who uses the space  nearly every day, this week has been
>> > a difficult one given the absences  due to Burning Man, greatly
>> > reduced presence of Robert 1.0, the "squatting" over-night by the
>> > above, and yet a steady stream of new guests and potential members.
>> >  I've stepped up to giving tours. I love
>> > and cherish this space, understand and know first hand that change is
>> > constant in life, and think Noisebridge is getting better every day.
>> >  I
>> > put at least an hour every morning into cleaning, do my best to do the
>> > "are you new to NB?" and "what are you working on?" questions, and
>> > encourage
>> > some sense of maintenance routine to keep going.  It is all good,
>> > though I do
>> > look forward to the return of others (members or not) who can help out
>> > with these things so I can put more time into working on the various
>> > projects that are demanding my time and attention.  Lately, this
>> > includes not only the wallets, but building a website/store, settling
>> > an insurance claim for my backpack stolen in June.
>> >
>> > On the positive side, I have probably given at least 25 tours this
>> > week
>> > and fundraising donations seem to be coming in.  The Noisebridge WW
>> > are
>> > also selling, 100% to the NB General Fund.  Also, Ed, has been  week
>> > and really helped launch an attack on the fruit fly situation.  Best
>> > of
>> > all, he has a particularly wonderful talent for cranking out totally
>> > AMAZING PIZZA!  omyn, yom, yom!  Joergen has also done some culinary
>> > wonders this week.  Best of all, both of these people and most people
>> > around this week have really pitched in and worked hard to not only
>> > get
>> > the place relatively cleaner, but to keep it that way.
>> >
>> > Lest this be taken as NB being "all weird and scary," let me be clear:
>> > It is not.  If anything, from what I've observed over the past 3
>> > months, it is becoming more excellent every week.  The vast majority
>> > of what's going on at Noisebridge is awesome, outstanding, fantastic,
>> > and positive.  People are what make this such an excellent
>> > space/community.  Nevertheless, Noisebridge *is* a part of the
>> > community around it and, I think, evolving for the good because of
>> > this.  If you are curious, want to learn, want to create, want to
>> > share & contribute, want to be able to do something more than covering
>> > the basic needs of existence... then Noisebridge is for you.  The only
>> > concern is that what before seeming to a few outliers has been
>> > creeping lately into regularity.
>> >
>> > I thus raise this issue with the following statements in mind:
>> > -Communication is leadership.
>> > -Problems are easiest to solve early and small vs. later and huge;
>> > Prevention is best.
>> > -No growth or change is possible until everyone admits the truth of
>> > the reality of a situation.
>> > -Groups working together can generally find better solutions than
>> > individuals acting alone.
>> > -This is an opportunity to improve, not a call to isolate.
>> >
>> > Noisebridge is an awesome environment/space/community
>> > and one that I am passionate about sharing and contributing to.
>> >
>> > Peace and thank you,
>> >
>> >
>> > Duncan (the Weightless Wallet guy)
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>>
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>>
>
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