[Noisebridge-discuss] Sigh -- I'm not helping with Maker Faires this year.

Jacob Appelbaum jacob at appelbaum.net
Thu Apr 5 00:36:19 UTC 2012

On 04/04/2012 03:08 PM, Matt Joyce wrote:
> Jake,
>    First of all it's obvious we're coming at this from different
> directions.  As my friend Ari would say, "how awesome is that?"

Yes, I'm happy to take a stand and make value judgments. I am happy to
assert that I feel uncomfortable with trying to understand the full context.

>    I am not going to get into a discussion regarding the wars in Iraq
> or Afghanistan.  I think no one disagrees about the questionable
> status of these events and certainly no one is going to argue that the
> DOD in general isn't geared to draw blood when requested.  And that's
> sort of the point.  ROE and being in those theaters are created with
> political oversight and approval.  As Reagan ( hehe ) used to say...
> the buck stops here.

You're avoiding some of the most important events of the last decade
that are related to the fruits of DARPA's labor, amongst others.

>    I think it's important to remember that the people out there in
> those war zones are there because an elected official put them there.
> And that counts for a lot.  We can argue over just how much till the
> cows come home.  It's not the point at all.

So we should remember that it is legitimate but ignore that many feel
that it isn't actually legit? Right...

>    I think ultimately we both agree that what is at question here is
> the ethics of accepting DARPA funding.  Yes the specific nature of the
> grant and all that can be discussed but the general framework of the
> discussion is geared to answer a question on ethics.  What I think is
> vital to this discussion is the definition of what that question is.
>    Yes, ethics are incredibly important as a component to STEM in any
> situation be it as a kid being taught, or as a professional in their
> career.  This stuff matters.  But how do hackerspaces and hackers want
> to approach the framework.
>    I don't necessarily believe that DARPA funding is a necessarily
> evil thing or a necessary evil either.  I think it exists and will
> stand or fall on its own merits per evaluation.  Life is fluid.
> What's important is that we build a methodology that's efficient at
> evaluating ANYTHING be it DARPA or PETA related assistance.  Many
> hackerspaces have struggled with accepting assistance from a wide
> variety of arenas... and many of the issues aren't ethical.   But
> DARPA specifically piques interest because it is a moral quandary for
> each of us.  I believe the focus in this discussion should be there.

Uh, OK?

>   And I'm definitely of the opinion we all have differing opinions and
> experiences that can help shape that discussion for the better.


> That's been my point from the beginning.  And why this is in privmsg
> and not on list.

This email was on the list - it isn't much of a discussion if it's in
private, please keep it on the list.

Are you going to agree about the mission of DARPA already or what?

All the best,

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