[Noisebridge-discuss] Hi everyone.

rachel lyra hospodar rachelyra at gmail.com
Sat Aug 18 05:58:01 UTC 2012


Frantisek emailed me privately, but I am responding publicly.  The
text of his email is included below.  I want to be clear about my
goals talking about this on nb-discuss.  I am not seeking private
emotional support, advice, stirring up drama, or seeking to cause
problems.  I am specifically seeking to have a public conversation
about this issue, because I believe this type of conversation is like
a portal through which we must each pass to reach the utopia where we
can stop worrying about it.

Frantisek,

I'm not angry at jim at all.  i am working to change some things i
think are wrong with society.  Unfortunately for both jim and myself I
am using our interaction as an example (because it is one) of the kind
of thing that contributes to what we all agree is a problem.  My
hypothesis is that rather than being merely symptomatic, these
interactions are actually the substrate [1] upon which the problem is
written, so by working to change these things, we automatically change
the thing we all agree is a problem. My further belief is that it is
important to change these things now, and the only way that they will
change is through this work.

I think you are a pompous hypocrite for publicly advising L***** to
sleep in the park instead of noisebridge, because i know that you
spent many, many nights sleeping at noisebridge.  I personally spent
nights hardware hacking where I saw you go to sleep in the tea room or
on the roof and then wake up refreshed to face the next day.  You used
to keep your toothbrush in the stairwell under the tea room.  I can no
longer respect your opinion on matters of social interaction because
of how hypocritical and blinded by privilege that I believe you to be.

i am not mad about that, either, although i bet you will think that i
am on reading those words. It's a perception problem inherent to
text-based communication, but there are also observable differences
between behavioral standards for men vs women.  Women are expected to
be more nice, more accommodating, more passive and socially supportive
in interactions.  Not consciously maybe, but even for those who don't
consciously reinforce this double standard there is as you say some
residue:
> Concerning the harassment thing, well that is an issue. I think that you can
> not get completely rid of it on both sides if you grew up in the environment
> where this prejudice was "exercised".
I agree with you.  We are all brainwashed.  This is why each of us
holds women to higher standards of niceness, and men to higher
standards of stoic emotional control, etc.

We can work to change this.  It starts with you giving me the benefit
of the doubt when it comes to rudeness, and/or shutting the fuck up
about some allegedly rude comment i made years ago. You are so
incapable of reading basic social cues that I have had to verbally
turn down hugs from you. It wasn't harassment because you didn't press
the issue when I said no.  I haven't made a big deal about it and am
not mad, but I think that shit is rude [2]. I think you are rude.
I'll be damned if I'll tolerate you sending me private messages
telling me how inappropriate my behavior is. I am making a filter to
shunt your messages to the same folder as nb-discuss.  You may not
contact me for private conversation.

also, this?
>  The question is if the harassment
> happen/someone is emotionally hurt how strictly react back.  Too much
> intensity will create negative action which ruin to possible change, not
> enough action keeps the issue unresolved.
falsely presumes that I have not considered the question it poses (or
else inherently calls out my conclusions as wrong) while also
completely missing the point.  The interaction I described with Jim
happened a year or more ago.  I waited a month to follow up to Jim's
message.  I am not hurt emotionally.  I am not reacting out of anger.
Too much intensity (and its results as stated) is a matter of opinion.

*I am working to change problems that I see in our society.
*I am speaking frankly about my feelings.
*I do not apologize very much for the discomfort this causes you.

Those are the things that I do differently from most people.  You
don't have to like it, but I'll thank you to get out of my way.

R.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substrate

[2] http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rude


On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 9:14 PM, Frantisek Apfelbeck <algoldor at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi Rachel,
> I'm sorry to hear about the misunderstanding with Jim. Try to consider not
> to blow up on the issue as you for example did years ago when you have been
> re-organizing the dirty workshop and I just came there to return the tool
> which I used and put it on the location where it belonged for last few
> months. You said to put it somewhere else, I said it is suppose to be there
> and you just blew up directly in to me in quite a pretty rude way which was
> quite unpleasant especially because I liked you (as I still do :-). You are
> impulsive and God knows what was Jim thinking, it could be the "short
> circuit problem" which happens to anyone from time to time and well with
> luck you both will be able to go over it in a fine way with some time. If
> you could take more distance in your emails on the matter and keep calm it
> would certainly help. I am trying to exercise a rule for years, never write
> emails when I'm angry, it works great!
>
> Concerning the harassment thing, well that is an issue. I think that you can
> not get completely rid of it on both sides if you grew up in the environment
> where this prejudice was "exercised". I think that you would have some form
> of "harassment" present at any place where one gender is in majority, like
> you have racism, nacism et cetera in different parts of society. I believe
> that the education and being in touch with lots of other people who are
> quite different is the way to go, traveling and living in another cultures
> works great for many people. The question is if the harassment
> happen/someone is emotionally hurt how strictly react back. Too much
> intensity will create negative action which ruin to possible change, not
> enough action keeps the issue unresolved. I think that skilled mediator,
> person with really good social skills and who can keep the temper is needed
> in such case.
>
> Well anyway it is a huge topic, have a good time, hopefully see you next
> year.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
>
> biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
>
>
> http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
>
>
> "There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Ghandi
>



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