[Noisebridge-discuss] Late night noisebridge, not so great for working anymore.
Danny O'Brien
danny at spesh.com
Wed Dec 19 07:11:42 UTC 2012
We had a long and pretty productive conversation about Jessie and some
other people at meeting today.
The general consensus (and let's talk about it at meeting rather than
on the mailing
list if you disagree) with Jessie was that his behaviour was
definitely out of order,
but that he might be unaware that he's now crossed a line, and may be amenable
to change his behavior. (I don't have an opinion on this, never met the guy).
It was definitely felt that him committing to not drinking at the
space in future would
help people feel more comfortable.
Coming to meeting is a great way of working this all out. Note that
next meeting is actually
Christmas Day, so it might be a bit hard to pull everything together
for a full meeting.
Jessie, wherever you are, you have some people to talk to! If you'd
like somebody
to mediate for you, I'm available.
This doesn't change any of what Jake said below, which I totally agree with.
I feel that you can and *always* should be able to ask people to leave
and come to meeting.
And if you're asked to leave and come to a meeting, it really helps if
you do just that.
It's not even that big a deal. I know several people who've gone
through this process
and ended up being a beloved member of the Noisebridge community, but I don't
really know anyone who tried to escalate when asked to go, or left and
then came back,
and then successfully won everyone over.
And really, it goes without saying that the community as a whole is
going to be a lot more
sympathetic to people who are trying to hack on something than people who
are having fun in a way that they could do anywhere else in San Francisco.
d.
On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 8:26 PM, Jake <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
> I heard about this and the person described was doing the same thing before.
> I ask that anyone who sees that person to tell them to leave and not come
> back until they come to a meeting to talk about it. Don't wait for them to
> get drunk, or for it to get late, but do consider gathering a couple of
> people with you who know enough about the situation to agree with you.
>
> If you see this person, go around the space and find other people who know
> about the problem. Ask them to join with you to tell the person that they
> must leave until the next meeting. If the person refuses, please do not
> give up. They are trying to wear you down, but they will fail. Continue to
> insist that they leave until the next meeting at which time they can
> challenge your request for them to leave.
>
> A few weeks ago a problem person was confronted by three people. This
> person raised their voice and expressed that we had no right to kick them
> out, even though the meeting was the next night. Eventually others came to
> see what the fuss was about and they could clearly see that this person was
> being unreasonable. The problem personsaw that more and more people were
> united in seeing this confrontation come to a reasonable end and they
> eventually gave up, after insulting everyone but complying with the demand
> that they give up their key.
>
> they did not come back for the meeting, thank god.
>
> it is necessary to make the space a better place, indeed to keep it from
> becoming crappy, to do these difficult things and confront the problems.
> There is no way around it.
>
> Nobody is asking you to confront a problem person by yourself, but rather to
> go around and find others who agree that it is a problem, and get some of
> them to join you (the others give their sitting support to your action) and
> confront the person with a group of at least three.
>
> The person mentioned below has used up their chances and should be made to
> leave the next time they show up at the space. They can come back to a
> meeting to talk about it if they so choose.
>
> -jake
>
>
>
> Robert "Finny" Merrill wrote:
> I went to NB for the first time in quite a while last night, and
> around 10 or 11 I think, I noticed that there seemed to be a lot of
> drunkenness and rowdy socializing going on. I'm not an enemy of
> drunkenness and rowdy socializing, but one particular individual
> (whose name iirc was Jessie, and was a friend of someone else named
> Martin) was rather sloshed and repeatedly approached me, interrupted
> what I was doing and spewed rather rude insults at me because I was
> trying to get work done instead of getting drunk like him (I am not
> kidding, he actually said "I am offended by the fact that you guys
> aren't drunk"). Whenever someone tried to tell him his behavior was
> inappropriate, he responded by insulting them and what they were
> doing, trying to fight them, and throwing small objects around the
> space.
>
> I observed several people get up from their work and leave as a direct
> result of this.
>
> I did not feel comfortable kicking him out because I did not think he
> would respond to anything short of threats to call the police, and as
> a non-member I have no legal standing to have someone removed from the
> space.
>
> Also, several other people in the space defended his conduct, one in
> particular saying that I should just deal with it and that I should
> take his insults as, in her words "constructive criticism".
>
> I feel like while most people who drink and socialize in the space are
> not disruptive, the fact that drinking and socializing are so
> tolerated leads people like this to believe their actions are okay. I
> think we need to make it clear that if you are not working, you should
> at the very least not be bothering people who are.
>
> -Finny
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