[Noisebridge-discuss] we made Delta leave at 2AM

Thu Feb 16 07:29:28 UTC 2012

The world is full of struggling people and it is poignant when they do it
in front of us but we are all hopefully working to be aware of the
suffering of others, and working to build our philosophies to be sound in
that condition as well as when the suffering is hidden away.  I think your
treatment of this problem has been sensitive and nuanced, and am glad to
have your input!  One thing that seemed to really resonate with Delta's
friends was when I pointed out that there are members of our community who
are homeless, and they have agreed that its detrimental to the space for
them to stay here...and if we were to consider changing our policy, they
would be above newcomers on the list.  I think that in this case some of
the people who are acting oogle-y have a mistaken impression of us as a
bunch of uptight yuppies who don't know how hard life is on the streets.
Hopefully developing a more nuanced understanding of our community will
help people to respect its wishes; this was definitely a theme of
discussion last night, both with Delta and afterwards.

R.

mediumreality.com
On Feb 15, 2012 9:17 PM, "Wladyslaw Zbikowski" <embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I have spoken in depth with Delta several times over the past few
> weeks, mainly trying to engage him in some hacking project. The
> conclusion I reached is that if someone enters the space for a reason
> other than hacking, it is pointless to try to force them to hack as a
> condition for staying. This is particularly true in the case of the
> "marginal" people now staying here. They simply have no place else to
> go: if you tell them they have to stand on one leg, they will; if you
> tell them to hack, they will tell you they are or are going to. Delta
> is by no means unique in this regard, nor is he particularly an
> asshole. He's just a struggling person who needs more help than
> Noisebridge can offer.
>
> An important consideration in dealing with these people is they can't
> all be expected to function at the same cognitive level as your
> typical hacker. Forcing Delta (and his friends) to pretend to be
> hackers is not just pointless, but also cruel. Expecting them to
> meaningfully participate in a weekly meeting is not always realistic.
> I am urging anyone who is hanging out at Noisebridge just getting in
> the way, to come back for classes and public events but stay out
> otherwise.
>
> On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 5:32 PM, Ben Kochie <superq at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I think this is the point where Delta should be promoted to an entry on
> 86.
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 08:32, Danny O'Brien <danny at spesh.com> wrote:
> >> On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 12:54 PM, rachel lyra hospodar
> >> <rachelyra at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> delta came back just now, and when i wouldn't let him in he started
> >>> yelling about needing his copyrighted song lyrics that were left in the
> >>> space, and threatened to call the authorities.  because they were
> >>> copyrighted, this was supposed to somehow get him entry into the space.
> >>
> >> Occupy the Intellectual Property!
> >>
> >>>
> >>> this reduces my optimism for his willingness to enter a beautiful
> >>> montage where he becomes a hacker.
> >>
> >> Yeah, that's not going to win many people over...
> >>
> >> For those of you who don't know Delta, he's in this video of him at
> Occupy SF:
> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SZyRDKvDlw
> >>
> >> Is there anyone else people should be asking to leave and come back to
> >> Tuesday meeting?
> >>
> >> d.
> >>
> >>>
> >>> R.
> >>>
> >>> On 2/15/2012 2:52 AM, Jake wrote:
> >>>> Delta was here after the meeting and since several stories had been
> shared
> >>>> about him, and we were all familiar with them, we decided to make him
> >>>> leave.  Jake Rayc Rachelyra Eric Pearl
> >>>>
> >>>> He had left the space about 1:30AM after asking everyone if they
> wanted to
> >>>> give him money for him to make fudge later.  I don't know if anyone
> wanted
> >>>> fudge.
> >>>>
> >>>> Around when he was leaving, Zach was leaving with his scooter and
> asked
> >>>> Delta not to park his bike in the wheelchair access path to the
> elevator.
> >>>> Delta was apparently rude to zach and argumentative and hostile with
> him.
> >>>> Zach says Delta was "angry" about it.  "he was being a really big
> dick."
> >>>>
> >>>> When Delta returned from the store with ingredients for fudge, about
> five
> >>>> of us all said "i'll help make him leave right now" and so we all
> stood up
> >>>> and went to him as he was getting off his bike.
> >>>>
> >>>> We explained to him that we had talked about him at the meeting,
> which he
> >>>> hadn't attended, and also after the meeting, and that we had decided
> that
> >>>> we didn't want him to come here anymore except if he wanted to come
> to a
> >>>> meeting to talk about it.
> >>>>
> >>>> We tried to explain to him that the majority of noisebridgers do not
> view
> >>>> leaving noisebridge for a week as a big deal, and that we appreciated
> him
> >>>> not making a big deal out of it.
> >>>>
> >>>> He tried to talk his way out of it and we all took turns explaining
> to him
> >>>> that it wasn't up for discussion and that he could come to the
> meeting to
> >>>> talk about it, or join the discuss list to talk about it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Then he needed a bag to put his groceries into (that he had bought to
> make
> >>>> us fudge that we didn't want) and then he started chatting with his
> >>>> friends who were already here.  They were alternately commiserating
> with
> >>>> him saying that things around here were like "the lord of the flies"
> and
> >>>> also telling him that they had warned him that "we are all guests
> here".
> >>>>
> >>>> Eventually he left, with his friends taking him downstairs to roll
> him a
> >>>> last cigarette.
> >>>>
> >>>> I didn't witness his interaction with Zach, but i could tell that if
> there
> >>>> hadn't been a group of five of us assertively telling him that the
> >>>> decision had been made, he would have argued back a lot more.
> >>>>
> >>>> -jake
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
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> >>>
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