[Noisebridge-discuss] Turing: Equipment Removed

Danny O'Brien danny at spesh.com
Mon Feb 27 23:52:37 UTC 2012

I really think it makes sense for Ben, Tom and Jim to meet in real
life. I'm pretty sure there's a solution that can be worked out; none
of you are particularly insane, and you've all done huge amounts for
building out Noisebridge infrastructure...


On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 3:36 PM, jim <jim at systemateka.com> wrote:
>    Please read this. I do not believe this email is drama.
> I've tried to articulate a problem and am asking for direct
> responses at the least from Ben and Tom.
>    Not only do I ask that you read, I ask that you read
> thoughtfully.
>    How did the drill press and saws get into the dirty
> workshop? For that matter, how is it that the dirty workshop
> is there? Likewise for the darkroom and the electronics area
> with its 'scopes and soldering irons and lots and lots of
> wires, semiconductors, passives.... Likewise for the sewing
> area with the machines and the bins of material and drawers
> of tools and supplies.
>    How about the Tastebridge territory with its special
> refrigerator and shelves of jars and so on, not to mention
> the related kitchen with its shelves and cupboards and so on?
>    Put things in member shelves? There are a couple of issues:
> * spacebridge stuff occupies a number of shelves. Why?
> * member shelves are subject to mismanagement, it's now obvious.
>    As to Turing, do you have plans to remove the whiteboard
> and/or the electrical conduit?
>    Generally, the answers are that people saw opportunity for
> making use of some area for some particular purpose. The
> discussions preliminary to setting up various areas were as
> varied as the areas and people who set them up. None of them
> were subject to a meeting's discussion or consensus process or
> anything else. Each was do-ocratically established, in some
> cases with negotiations with others wrt their interests (e.g.
> I negotiated the "library" space with those who'd claimed that
> wall for photo display).
>    The multiple discussions about classrooms in which I've
> participated have noted the need for a classroom area that has
> a projector and sound system, similar to the main area, and to
> provide an alternative area so that smaller groups aren't stuck
> with using the projector and sound system in the main area
> (which allows people in the main area freedom from the needs of
> a group using the main projector, etc.). Turing makes good sense
> as such an alternate area.
>    From time to time there have been do-ocratic efforts, both
> in the space and on the mailing list, to clean things up and/or
> reorganize and/or impress conformance.
>    Those that took a positive tone to make improvements, in my
> recall, were more successful (especially with respect to
> emotional storms on the discuss list) than those that included
> a negative proscriptive component.
>    Questions that arise in my mind include "why are you focusing
> on the turing classroom?" "why are you not focusing on the little
> storage and rack closet?" Those are real questions, I'm hoping
> for answers. (I've noticed Ben's response re "electrical closet".)
>    I've not experienced such negatively oriented interference
> in any other development of an area in our space. I'd like to
> know why Turing and why now and why in this obnoxious manner.
>    My intention is to set up the Turing classroom so that it
> supports classes. I have a lot of experience as a classroom
> lecturer--something like ten years in accredited schools, with
> notable success.
>    Note that I intend to continue setting up the Turing
> classroom to be a good and useful classroom, and I expect, in
> the spirit of do-ocracy and noisebridge's history, that you
> will respect my efforts to do so.
>    As far as I know, there has been no time when the Turing
> classroom didn't work for a meeting or class. Space in that
> room has not been at a premium so far, even with the stuff
> that's been squirreled in there under tables against the north
> wall (much or most of it not related to any building or
> improvement that i know of).
>    A people reading this may recall my occasional pleas in
> Tuesday evening meetings for people to step up and take
> ownership of various spaces. A few of you have done so, and
> with respect to electricity, when you've asked for electrical
> devices, I've tried to help out:
> * outlets on the south wall (now buried by shelves)
> * large capacity run to the kitchen area
> * removing and reorganizing the electrical mess that we
>  inherited
> * totally rebuilt the guts of the primary three-phase sub-panel
> * installed interior entrance lights
> * brought three-phase availability in the dirty shop
> * all darkroom electricity
> * east end lighting improvement
> * laser cutter dedicated circuit
> * main room ceiling lights and switches
> * infrastructure closet lighting and power
>    I've given up trying to defend order in the infrastructure
> closet, having built all shelves and storage areas to see them
> trashed, filled with random stuff, shelving materials removed,
> and noisebridge electrical supplies removed to piles, wrecking
> the organization I'd worked hard on.
>    As long as I'm building this list, I'll add: I was one of
> the few who championed improving the floor before we moved in
> and I put a lot of hours working on the prep and sanding and
> filling and finishing.
>    Can you understand that the censorious manner you're taking
> to my work to improve the Turing classroom is irritating?
>    As I wrote earlier in this email, I have not witnessed such
> an approach as you have taken with respect to any other area in
> the time we've been either here, at 2169, or at 83C weisse. I
> ask again: why are you acting in this way?
>    Note I'm not complaining about trying to improve things; I'm
> complaining hard about the way you're demanding behavior that
> has been actually sanctioned for every other improvement in the
> past. (Note also that the build-out policy is that people can
> bring and leave their personal tools and supplies needed to do
> their work as long as they label their tools and supplies.)
>    I expect that you will, at the least, let me continue to
> try to improve the Turing classroom by curtailing behavior that
> demands foolish conformity and is contradictory to established
> Noisebridge norms for improving the space.
>    I welcome cleaning and organizing efforts. I have pretty
> much given up on trying to rescue or reorganize Noisebridge
> supplies such as (expensive) copper wire. When we run out of
> wire, I'll not resupply--I've spent enough already. If you've
> thrown out the wire that Noisebridge has paid for, please go
> to an electrical supply store and replace it.
>    I'd like positive support, but i'll gladly take silence.
> On Sun, 2012-02-26 at 22:19 -0800, Ben Kochie wrote:
>> Jim, storing things in the classroom, while traditional, is still not
>> the intended use for that space.  We have been trying to clean up the
>> room and make it more habitable and inviting for classes of all kinds.
>>  The things you talk about are in their appropriate locations.
>> Yes, I know you teach classes in there, but that's only a day or two a
>> week.  If you want to setup a permanent location for teaching Linux
>> serving, please talk to me on Tuesday night.  I'd love to help.
>> I cleaned out the ewaste and some other garbage from the electrical
>> closet.  I have a bit more organizing to do, but there should be more
>> than enough room to hold all the electrical spare parts in there.
>> On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 19:02, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >    Do you plan to take the saws and drills out of
>> > the dirty workshop? remove the refrigerator from
>> > the kitchen area? How about the sewing machines
>> > and oscilloscopes?
>> >    I'd like to meet you and talk.
>> > jim
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sun, 2012-02-26 at 17:41 -0800, Tom wrote:
>> >> As I said on the list almost two weeks ago, then announced at last
>> >> week's meeting, I have removed the computer/audio equipment and
>> >> speakers from Turing, and placed them in the e-waste pile. Please find
>> >> them a better home on your hacker shelf, or somewhere else where space
>> >> is not a premium! If you do so, go ahead and use them for classes in
>> >> Turing, but remove them afterwards. If these items end up stored in
>> >> Turing again, I intend to remove them permanently.
>> >
>> >
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