[Noisebridge-discuss] Upstairs door latch mechanism?

jim jim at well.com
Fri Feb 10 18:32:26 UTC 2012

Per last night's soceng meeting (per what I got out of it): 
* There was an attempt to define the problem that's behind the 
  recent spate of emails: The problem seems to be to avoid 
  disasters such as fire or fire marshalls or shootings and to 
  encourage "hacking", whatever that means to whoever's using 
  the word. 
* There was also an attempt to specify what we want to protect; 
  the idea was to understand this before we got into devising 
  solutions. That included protecting the public perception of 
  noisebridge as a place for hackers, not "homeless" (I believe 
  that word was used, as was "ooglers"). 
* There were a number of solutions proposed, most of which had 
  to do with keeping out undesirable personages. The group 
  settled on creating an access code solution without 
  eliminating any current access modes (buzzing in or using a 
  physical key). 
      What's the point of a new access mode that allows the 
  existing access modes? Carl's observation is that if a number 
  of people start using access codes to get in, that will 
  reduce the number of buzz-ins, and each buzz-in will be more 
  noticeable to those who are in the space, and therefore it's 
  more likely that new arrival will be scrutinized. 
( As to locking the top door, I believe two people were 
  enthusiastically for it and something like four similarly 
  against. I was one of the two. I like the idea because it 
  does not require anyone to be responsible for it beyond 
  getting the lock in the door to work. All other proposals 
  required one or more people either to design and implement 
  some solution or to be on call to do something such as 
  closing the space down at some hour or.... 
      As to Jake's observation, I don't see a way to confront 
  someone at the street level. We're all "up here", and it 
  doesn't seem likely that anyone will go downstairs to let 
  someone in. If so, then we either let someone in blindly 
  or we let them buzz and buzz and buzz and finally go away 
  in frustration. If someone "up here" has to let a new 
  arrival in through the top door, that someone will almost 
  certainly scope the new arrival out. Almost always the new 
  arrival will be okay. Rarely will the new arrival be 
  obviously trouble, but in that case, given that nobody will 
  ever go downstairs to find out, we'll have to deal with 
  problem people "up here". 
      As to my feelings, I like things as they are: no locks, 
  no access codes, no systems to restrict entry, no systems 
  to break and require fixing or improving. Rather, I like 
  the idea that we are mutually supportive--something that 
  probably should be improved--and therefore have confidence 
  as individuals to confront persons who might be creating 
  problems. But if something __must__ be done, figure out a 
  solution that does not require some members attention to 
  maintain it--the history of Pony recommends against our 
  home-brewed automation schemes for critical functions such 
  as access, and we should avoid a solution that requires a 
  particular member to be there at some time to perform some 
  particular responsibility.) 

On Fri, 2012-02-10 at 02:34 -0800, Jake wrote:
> I guess a bunch of people have been talking about latching or locking the 
> upstairs door.
> Are you people crazy?  Don't you realize that by the time someone is 
> upstairs they feel as though they are practically inside the space 
> already?
> If you can't turn someone away at the sidewalk, and they get to the top of 
> the stairs, it is only going to make them angry if you refuse to let them 
> in.  It is going to create more conflict, not less, especially if you use 
> the smarmy little porthole to shield yourself while refusing to let 
> someone in while someone else comes up behind you and second-guesses your 
> decision in front of the person.
> have you ever been at a teller window (post office for example) where the 
> clerk, who is telling you NO you can't have what you came here for, is 
> isolated behind a 2" thick piece of lexan with a tiny little breathing 
> hole where you're supposed to talk and listen through?  Do you remember 
> feeling hostility toward that person and wondering what you would do if 
> you could reach through the little hole and strangle them?
> well that's whats going to happen to you if you try to keep people out at 
> the top of the stairs, because eventually someone is going to open the 
> door and that person is going to come in anyway, and be pissed at you.
> We need to focus on bouncing people at the sidewalk door.  If you are 
> having trouble understanding this concept, please ask some people whose 
> opinion you trust before continuing with this idea of locking the upstairs 
> door.
> sincerely,
> -jake
> Casey Callendrello wrote:
> Hi there.
> The upstairs door is already keyed with the A-key. However, the latch
> mechanism has been removed. Does anyone know where it is?
> If not, I'll try to order a new one. The crash bar is a "Von Duprin 44".
> However, these parts are surprisingly expensive and hard to track down.
> --c.
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