[Noisebridge-discuss] Hi everyone.

Tony Longshanks LeTigre anthonyletigre at gmail.com
Sat Jul 28 05:12:20 UTC 2012 

I think the solution is for Jesse to stop policing other people and mind
his own goddamn business.

On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 9:38 PM, rachel lyra hospodar
<rachelyra at gmail.com>wrote:

> How can we intercede against harassment without, first, defining it?
>
> I'm not making any rules. I never even suggested such a thing. It's a
> kneejerk reaction that makes you even see that happening here. I am
> adopting that policy for my own use in Noisebridge space, and in the
> process attempting to codify established social norms. Anyone wishing to
> interact with me has a clear and referrable index for what types of
> behaviors I desire from default mode.
>
> You make a robot, and I'll publish my policy, and let's see which works to
> keep creepers off my ass.... except language is a system of technology and
> so in some ways that policy is my robot. It's already built and running.
> Let me know when you finish yours.
>
> BTW I just used your home system to run my robot. PWN!
> On Jul 27, 2012 9:14 PM, "Danny O'Brien" <danny at spesh.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 08:01:37PM -0700, Liz Henry wrote:
>> > Lots of food for thought there, Rachel!
>> >
>> > On the idea of a no-harassment code,  I think one could be useful for
>> > us.  Not harassing people is in theory covered under "be excellent".
>> > Expanding that with a list of some specific anti-patterns means that
>> > people could feel a little more confident their concerns will be heard
>> > and their presence in the space defended.
>> >
>>
>> I actually kind of disagree with this approach, not because of the idea
>> behind it, but because of the impossibility of raising to the same level
>> as a rule (or even a code of conduct) any literal statement beyond "be
>> excellent" in the Noisebridge community.
>>
>> People who don't really understand Noisebridge's cultural discomfort
>> with explicit rules are bound to interpret that failure as meaning that
>> culturally we don't care about such harassment, Whereas in fact about
>> the only times we've stood united to act was when such harassment was
>> potentially an issue: I think every time we've banned or asked, as a
>> community, someone to leave, it's been because of concerns of this
>> nature.
>>
>> I think it's setting us up to fail, and fail in a way we don't actually
>> reflect internally, to try and haggle over explicit language. Like many
>> geek communities, we suck at all of this, but we don't *actually* suck
>> worse because we can't get it together to not argue about the precise
>> wording.*
>>
>> I'd much rather continue to work on improving the ways we continue to
>> actively intercede with harassment, including role-playing it
>> (interceding, not the harassment), building up the habit of backing each
>> other up, seeding communities within the wider community, and giant
>> robots that electrocute people.
>>
>> d.
>>
>> > It doesn't matter that it's not "enforceable" any more than "be
>> > excellent" is.
>> >
>> > When I see a positive statement from an organization that they welcome
>> > (laundry list of non-dominant culture identities), or one that they
>> > don't tolerate harassment or hate on (laundry list), personally, I do
>> > feel more welcome and more confident that I can be in that space. It
>> > increases my social trust.
>> >
>> > Like you, I prefer a transformative approach, mediation, and discussion
>> > in most situations.
>> >
>> > Here is my addition to your suggested code.
>> >
>> > ----
>> >
>> > Noisebridge as a community does not tolerate harassment. Harassment
>> > includes offensive verbal comments related to gender, sexual
>> > orientation, disability, physical appearance, body size, race,
>> > ethnicity, religion, housing status, social class.  It also includes
>> > deliberate intimidation, stalking, following, inappropriate physical
>> > contact, and unwelcome sexual attention. Participants asked to stop any
>> > harassing behavior are expected to do so immediately. We are a diverse
>> > community and thus it is especially important that we listen to, and
>> > respect, each others' boundaries.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> >
>> > Liz
>> >
>> >
>> > On 7/27/12 6:11 PM, rachel lyra hospodar wrote:
>> > > I have been thinking a lot about what went down this week, and the
>> > > ramifications for Noisebridge.  Noisebridge itself, let's remember, is
>> > > a technology.  A tool.  It is a system of organizing things that
>> > > serves a goal.  That goal?  It varies for its various users, but my
>> > > impression of the consensus is this: encouraging the creative use of
>> > > technology.  That means disseminating technological skills, creating
>> > > access to technological tools, but most importantly, disseminating the
>> > > "hacker" mindset of creative problem solving.  There seems to be a
>> > > consensus around radical inclusivity.  There is definitely a consensus
>> > > around being open to the public, around the idea of *public* access to
>> > > this space being important.
>> > >
>> > > i am going to start with some things I take as given, and would like
>> > > for you to examine them.
>> > >
>> > >     -Systems evolve in a similar way to organic life forms.
>> > >     -Societies are systems that we use to offload cognitive
>> processing to
>> > > the cloud.  Through a set of shared agreements, we are able to create
>> > > a piece of software that runs without using our primary processor.
>> > > Cool, huh?  An example of this is the set of shared cultural contexts
>> > > that allow you to walk down a busy street without getting hit by a
>> > > car.
>> > >     -An organism may persist even if it is operating inefficiently.
>> > >     -Over time, the types of organisms that exist most plentifully
>> will
>> > > be those that functioned the most efficiently.
>> > >     -it is inefficient to discard most of your resources without even
>> > > assessing their potential.  Some of them probably could have
>> > > contributed to the efficient function of your organism.
>> > >     -Human society, while imperfect, is still wobbling along
>> functioning
>> > > as our cloud.  America is a bounded instance of an attempt to improve
>> > > on that model.  Noisebridge is the same.
>> > >
>> > > OK.  So then what?
>> > >
>> > > Human society, American society, our society, a cloud that in
>> > > aggregate still runs great portions of Noisebridge, is constantly
>> > > discarding most of its human resources without assessing their
>> > > potential.  How many awesome hackers are languishing in a ghetto in
>> > > New Delhi, or in prison cells all over America?  How many are among us
>> > > right now, walking all around us, and not even knowing they are
>> > > hackers?
>> > >
>> > > At least twice as many as we've got right now.
>> > >
>> > > We don't even have to spring them from prison. We don't even have to
>> > > fly to India to visit them. We just have to stop telling them they are
>> > > not hackers.  We don't even have to tell them that they are hackers
>> > > (although that helps).  They will figure it out on their own.  After
>> > > all, they are hackers.
>> > >
>> > > We can't really that easily help the dude who is hacking his
>> > > toothbrush into a shank in solitary lockdown.  We don't need to.
>> > > Well, we do.  Fuck, we do.  But there aren't as many of us as there
>> > > are prison guards, keeping him in there.  Maybe if there were more
>> > > hackers we could figure out how to hack the prison industrial complex.
>> > > Fortunately, there are a bunch of extra hackers, among us right now,
>> > > walking all around us, and not even knowing they are hackers.
>> > >
>> > > At least twice as many.
>> > >
>> > > We don't even have to spring them from prison.
>> > >
>> > > We don't even have to fly to India to visit them.
>> > >
>> > > We just have to stop telling them they are not hackers.
>> > >
>> > > Did you know that every time someone who is openly female contributes
>> > > to the linux kernel she gets explicit harassing messages from a
>> > > particular individual?  I found that out this past week.  Sigh, yawn,
>> > > how terrible and annoying and I didn't do it and I didn't get those
>> > > messages so why should I care?
>> > >
>> > > It's costing us half our hackers, friend.
>> > >
>> > > Jesse Z said explicitly on Tuesday that the reason he has been
>> > > harassing me is because he doesn't think I'm a hacker.  I came to
>> > > noisebridge to find collaborators and technical advice and equipment
>> > > for my open source interface project.  I project managed a
>> > > consensus-based website build for OWS which was kind of like herding
>> > > cats in the middle of a riot. I've taught scores of artists how to use
>> > > wiki to manage shared projects.  I'm a fucking hacker.  I actually
>> > > founded a sewing/art hackspace in Oakland thankyouvery much, where a
>> > > group of us pool our resources to create and maintain a space for
>> > > creative use of technology, and a set of tools for the sustainable
>> > > creation of micro-climate pods that enable humans to settle areas
>> > > outside of their narrow evolutionary band.  Pretty cool, huh?  What
>> > > tech is that?  Clothes.  I'm a fucking hacker.
>> > >
>> > > Why do I even have to defend my hackerness in this message?  I don't,
>> > > actually. I am confident in my social standing as a hacker badass in
>> > > this community.  Or not, whatever.  You don't have to like me.  Just
>> > > get out of my way.  So why am I even defending myself in this message?
>> > >  Because when someone calls up a shitty piece of software that's
>> > > running on my cloud, I am forced to run it too.  Even when it says
>> > > things that my local software knows are bullshit.  The cloud knows
>> > > better, man.  You are running what it fucking tells you or you can't
>> > > even use the damn internet.
>> > >
>> > > So,
>> > >
>> > > Until we live in a society that does not exclude women from technology
>> > > spaces, anytime we want to be in technology spaces we are shaped by
>> > > that absence.  Those of us who are paying attention will be the ones
>> > > waving our arms and going "hey this dude's a fucking creep" and by
>> > > fucking creep we mean "excluding scores of potential hackers through
>> > > wildly antisocial behavior".  Those of you who are not paying
>> > > attention to the way that technology spaces are shaped by the absence
>> > > of women are still being affected by it.  You're the ones wondering
>> > > why I don't want to talk to you while I am trying to get work done.
>> > > It's because I have to constantly deflect vaguely sexual attention to
>> > > even be in public.  No, I am not being melodramatic.  When I walk down
>> > > the street I have my backpack on and am walking all purposeful and the
>> > > way I dress looks like a dude from far away.  I don't wear a lot of
>> > > little dresses.  Why do you think that is?  i look good in a little
>> > > dress, too.  In a space like Noisebridge, where we all have our guard
>> > > down a little bit more, it seems socially acceptable to come over and
>> > > interrupt what I am doing to demand that I tell you about it... but in
>> > > that moment my choice is do my work, or entertain you.  I'm happy to
>> > > chat, I love people, so sometimes this is ok.  How can you tell when
>> > > it is ok or not?  There are systems that we use culturally to keep us
>> > > from killing each other.  When they mismatch a little, it's annoying
>> > > and i am sending social cues that you are ignoring, and you are
>> > > sending social cues that I don't like. When they mismatch a lot,
>> > > sometimes that is categorized as rape.   Oh, and also sometimes people
>> > > are dicks.
>> > >
>> > > So let's be clear about how people are supposed to behave in public at
>> > > noisebridge, and then be firm about people who aren't doing that.  Not
>> > > because we are not all beautiful little snowflakes with a right to act
>> > > however we choose (we are!) but because of triage.  The chilling
>> > > effect of one harassing individual over many months is pronounced - it
>> > > costs us many potential hackers.  We are committed to radical
>> > > inclusivity, and acknowledge that all humans deserve community, even
>> > > those with whom we do not agree.  That doesn't mean we need to let
>> > > them shit in our punchbowl or hog all the punch.  We can tell them to
>> > > stop drinking the punch before they drown in the bile of their own
>> > > chronic liver failure.  They probably won't stop until we take the
>> > > damn punch bowl away, and we'll feel like an asshole for taking it
>> > > away, but at least that way a couple other people can have punch too.
>> > >
>> > > Do we need felony assault charges to tell us someone is being a dick?
>> > > Do we use the court system to arbitrate who is allowed in our space?
>> > > No.  We are smarter than that BS, right?  That's the system that put
>> > > all those hackers in jail in the first place.
>> > >
>> > > I am adopting a version of the http://adainitiative.org/ policy - it
>> > > explicitly defines a behavioral standard so that everyone knows what
>> > > is expected of them.  Their research (on tech conferences in
>> > > particular) indicated:
>> > >     Often, the person doing the groping or harassing honestly believed
>> > > that their behavior was acceptable for the venue. Just as often, many
>> > > other people went on record agreeing with them.
>> > >     People who saw these incidents didn’t know how to respond to these
>> > > incidents or weren’t sure who to report them to.
>> > >     Conference organizers sometimes didn’t learn about an incident
>> > > until long after it happened. When they did find out in time to take
>> > > action, they often didn’t know how to respond to the incident.
>> > >
>> > > Below is my first draft, 2 simple sentences.  Feel free to suggest
>> > > changes.  For this to work in our community it needs to be widely
>> > > supported.  I expect some of you to mock the fact that I feel a need
>> > > to write this very serious email.  For all of you who wish you didn't
>> > > have to take this so seriously, well, so do I.  You just have a choice
>> > > about it.  I don't.  And that, in a nutshell, is privilege.
>> > >
>> > > Harassment includes offensive verbal comments [related to gender,
>> > > sexual orientation, disability, physical appearance, body size, race,
>> > > religion, housing status[your specific concern here]], deliberate
>> > > intimidation, stalking, following, inappropriate physical contact, and
>> > > unwelcome sexual attention. Participants asked to stop any harassing
>> > > behavior are expected to do so immediately.
>> > >
>> > > R.
>> > >
>> > > Further reading - I really enjoyed reading this review about
>> > > transformative justice:
>> > > http://uppingtheanti.org/journal/article/13-work-transform/
>> > > It says:
>> > > Transformative justice is about community transformation, not
>> > > retribution. While it can be cathartic to treat people who cause harm
>> > > as “monsters” who need to be “punished,” proponents of transformative
>> > > justice argue that we should develop skills to compassionately support
>> > > perpetrators. The goal is to help perpetrators take responsibility for
>> > > their actions without enabling or minimizing their abusive behaviour,
>> > > and also learn to transform the social conditions that supported the
>> > > abuse in the first place.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Oh, and here's a bonus.
>> > >
>> http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/07/25/online-tracker-led-rapist-to-his-victim/
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> > > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> > > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > ------------------------
>> > Liz Henry
>> > liz at bookmaniac.org
>> > http://bookmaniac.org
>> >
>> > "Without models, it's hard to work; without a context, difficult to
>> > evaluate; without peers, nearly impossible to speak." -- Joanna Russ
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >
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