[Noisebridge-discuss] Freedom isn't Free

Jeffrey Carl Faden jeffreyatw at gmail.com
Mon May 28 20:32:38 UTC 2012

Nice Godwin!


On May 28, 2012, at 1:28 PM, Jake <jake at spaz.org> wrote:

> bandit,
> while some people actually believe that wars establish right from wrong, 
> the progress of those wars is more predictable than a WWF wrestling* match 
> because it's based on funding.
> hitler was able to wage war because wealthy businessmen invested in him, 
> because he provided a future which was attractive to those people.  In 
> hitler's envisioned society, wealthy men would have much more power, in 
> fact the power of life and death, and the right to work slaves to death 
> (provided they weren't from the same breeding stock as the soldiers)
> a lot of the funding that hitler received came from good old America, 
> where there were (and are) plenty of wealthy businessmen wanting some of 
> the power normally reserved for governments.  In fact, businessmen tried 
> to pull a fascist coup in the USA in 1934, known as the Business Plot:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler#Allegations_of_the_Business_Plot
> None of those involved were prosecuted or even investigated (unlike 
> many suspected "commies" during the red scare).
> How many of those bankers were bankrolling hitler's rise to power?
> George Bush's father was: (grandpa to our second Bush president)
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar
> The Occupy Wall Street movement seeks, among other things, to diminish the 
> power of Wall Street and the "businessmen" who do things like fund 
> fascism and warmongering presidents.
> What are Soldiers' attitudes toward Occupy Wall Street?
> I'm not going to try to guess how you vote, but military folks voted for 
> John McCain over Obama in 2008 by a factor of 3 to 1:
> (unless the charts below are a total fabrication which is possible)
> http://www.militarytimes.com/static/projects/pages/081003_ep_2pp.pdf
> We all know Bush Jr. started both the Afghanistan war and the Iraq war, 
> for no legitimate reason (unless you include american hegemony).
> McCain was running on a platform of more of the same.
> And speaking for myself, I know that every single gung-ho proud military 
> booster and soldier I meet is proudly advertising how they can't wait to 
> get another Bush in the office so he can start more wars, unlike the 
> pacifist Obama who just wants to end all the wars and spoil all the fun.
> So to me it seems like the same people who are fighting these wars (today) 
> are actually enjoying it a little too much, and maybe even encouraging 
> these wars.  That's not very freedom-inducing (especially if you're an 
> Afghan) and in my opinion, it very much DISHONORS the freedom-fighters you 
> mention in your post, who saved us from fascism in the Good War WW II.
> I think that the people on the Noisebridge Disuss list are pretty 
> universally anti-war and anti-fascist, and do not support Wall Street 
> economic power (which funds pro-war candidates and funded fascism in the 
> WW II era).
> I am guessing that you have not been sending messages on military mailing 
> lists telling soldiers to honor the sacrifices of the WW II heroes by 
> voting for the pacifist candidate and supporting OWS.  Am i wrong?
> or is there a disconnect here?
> You mention early in your post that there are still US military in harm's 
> way.  What about the people in the sights of their guns?  Aren't they in 
> harm's way too?  Whose land are they on?
> At maker faire, i was carrying a sign protesting Maker Faire's involvement 
> with DARPA.  Some people who were critical of my sign actually suggested 
> that I wanted to "let Canada invade us."  If the military you claim we 
> need is to defend us from the Canadians, sign me up right now.  I fucking 
> love Canadians.  They are beautiful and friendly and interesting.
> Some other people critical of my sign kept saying "I'm glad you have the 
> freedom to carry that sign" suggesting that DARPA and the current US 
> military is responsible for my having freedom of speech.  I disagree 
> heartily, and I offer such suggestions as evidence of how ridiculous are 
> the arguments of todays war boosters.
> -jake
> * - some people also believe WWF wrestling is real
> bandit wrote:
> Just a reminder on Memorial day..
> Whatever you think of the wisdom of the current conflicts,
> there are still US military folks in harm's way.
> For those who think we do not need a military,
> you are wrong.
> We can debate the size and role of the military,
> and that is a proper discussion to have for as long as we exist as a 
> country.
> However, Freedom isn't Free.
> WW 2 showed that - without the sacrifice of many,
> we would no longer exist as a country, and many of us would not be here
> because the Japanese and Germans would have enslaved
> and killed our parents and grandparents.
> This is an historical fact.
> I just met a Vet who was at Pearl Harbor on 7 Dev 1941.
> So - please take a minute to reflect on
> If you are Free, thank a Vet.
> If you object to the above, please spend some time
> at the Golden Gate National Cemetery
> 1300 Sneath Lane, San Bruno, CA 94006
> Take a book on WW 2 Pacific battles.
> You can match the dates of deaths to specific battles.
> You are likely to be older than they were when they died.
> http://maps.google.com/maps/place?cid=673815285949243962&q=San+francisco+military+cemetery,+california&hl=en&t=h&cd=1&cad=src:ppiwlink&ei=VhzDT_ymM4KCowSMo728BA&dtab=2
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2RwRi2TjA0&feature=player_embedded
> Thanks ... bandit
> -- 
> bandit at cruzio.com
> 505-228-8197
> bandit.name
> I am a systems engineer, specializing in:
> - Mission-Critical embedded systems
> - device drivers
> - control and data acquisition systems
> My stuff *works* - *all the time*.
> Member: INCOSE.org, PACA.org, IEEE.org, CaliforniaConsultants.org, 
> quelab.net
> And to support my son: Proud members of the New Mexico .NET User Group.
> Please go to the community website at www.nmug.net.
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