[Noisebridge-discuss] Lack of due process when Cynthia forced to leave
Joseph Brenner
doomvox at gmail.com
Fri May 4 00:27:56 UTC 2012
Uh huh. And when people aren't actually willing to show their face to
talk something out, they sound a lot like an internet troll that
doesn't need to be taken seriously.
On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Jake <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
> yes because whenever people say something is too horrible to possibly
> discuss in an open listserve, where we talk about everything else, it just
> sounds like there's really nothing to say and they're trying to cover the
> lack of justification for what they did with secrecy.
>
> let's hear it.
>
>
> On Thu, 3 May 2012, Joseph Brenner wrote:
>
>> The people who were actually there and made the call, did not want to
>> discuss it on list, they wanted to save it for the meeting.
>>
>> Would hashing things out a second time here, for the people who don't
>> go to meetings, actually help in any way?
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 4:58 PM, Corey McGuire <coreyfro at coreyfro.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Irony is lost on this one.
>>>
>>> How about this, "Will someone, for the love of FUCKING GOD or ALLAH or
>>> SATAN
>>> or STALLMAN tell me what the fuck she did wrong?"
>>>
>>> Feynman, help us.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 4:40 PM, Jake <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> except that it's not funny, and Jesse's actions are making noisebridge
>>>> look bad. and getting the police to come over.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 3 May 2012, Corey McGuire wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You know...it's funny. I still have no idea what she did wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 3:43 PM, rachel lyra hospodar
>>>>> <rachelyra at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The last time I talked to her about it, Erica was no longer
>>>>> feeling
>>>>> welcome because Jesse (the same jesse) told her she wasn't
>>>>> enough of a hacker and she should leave.
>>>>>
>>>>> This after she had to ask him to stop calling her at 3am.
>>>>>
>>>>> R.
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 3, 2012 3:02 PM, "Jake" <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
>>>>> I couldn't have said it better myself.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why is Erica no longer feeling welcome?
>>>>>
>>>>> I have to say, I have noticed that some people (including
>>>>> Jesse for sure)
>>>>> seem to be fulfilling my prediction that we could swing
>>>>> around
>>>>> into the
>>>>> reactionary zone after we started dealing with the
>>>>> occupiers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please re-read the below and let's not make the same
>>>>> mistakes
>>>>> again.
>>>>> Calling the police is a LAST RESORT and shows bad judgement
>>>>> on
>>>>> the part of
>>>>> the people who did it.
>>>>>
>>>>> What would Jesse or Will have done if a couple of female
>>>>> members told them
>>>>> to leave?
>>>>>
>>>>> Carl said:
>>>>> You know I don't post here all that much, but I really felt
>>>>> that I had
>>>>> to respond to this...
>>>>>
>>>>> I've read through all of the comments about what transpired
>>>>> with
>>>>> Cynthia, on the discuss list and the meeting notes.
>>>>> Although
>>>>> I haven't
>>>>> been present at Noisebridge during the past week, from what
>>>>> I've read so
>>>>> far, I am really not pleased about how people involved in
>>>>> this
>>>>> situation
>>>>> treated her. (This would include Jesse, Will, and
>>>>> apparently
>>>>> a third
>>>>> man.)
>>>>>
>>>>> First of all, calling the police really should not be done
>>>>> unless:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Someone is harming or threatening harm to another person,
>>>>> causing
>>>>> damage to the space, stealing, or otherwise causing trouble
>>>>> or
>>>>> performing an illegal activity.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. A person who has been officially banned from the space
>>>>> refuses to
>>>>> leave. And by "official", I mean a due process has been
>>>>> followed
>>>>> whereas a previous discussion and consensus was taken to ban
>>>>> a
>>>>> particular person.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. AND ONLY AFTER the Noisebridge community are unable to
>>>>> handle the
>>>>> situation on our own should we get the police involved.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I find it troubling when individuals take it upon themselves
>>>>> to forcibly
>>>>> remove people from the space, who by all accounts of what
>>>>> I've
>>>>> read, did
>>>>> NOT cause any trouble prior to being asked to leave. I
>>>>> believe it was
>>>>> wrong for Jesse and Will to have done what they did in this
>>>>> case, prior
>>>>> to taking it up at a meeting where the members could discuss
>>>>> and make a
>>>>> decision as to whether to ban Cynthia from the space, AND
>>>>> ONLY
>>>>> AFTER
>>>>> this discussion and consensus would it be appropriate to ask
>>>>> someone to
>>>>> not return. (and as she brought up, informing her of this
>>>>> could have
>>>>> been done through email prior to her arrival in order to
>>>>> avoid
>>>>> this
>>>>> confrontation.)
>>>>>
>>>>> I am also troubled by the flippant and immature responses on
>>>>> this list
>>>>> about Cynthia being "crazy". Her past talk of legal actions
>>>>> against
>>>>> Texas corporations has no bearing on what transpired. As
>>>>> far
>>>>> as I can
>>>>> tell, she hasn't forng more people than prior to when the
>>>>> Oogles started
>>>>> arriving at the space. The first time Noisebridge ever
>>>>> banned
>>>>> anyone,
>>>>> it took considerable discussion and a consensus process.
>>>>> Nowadays it
>>>>> seems like any member can just ban anyone they don't like.
>>>>> How and why
>>>>> did we get to this point? And I'm not just talking about
>>>>> Cynthia here,
>>>>> but others as well. (take Erica for example, who no longer
>>>>> feels
>>>>> welcome here.)
>>>>>
>>>>> And lastly, I think we need to stop this witch-hunt
>>>>> non-hacker
>>>>> hate
>>>>> mentality that we seem to be developing here, which will
>>>>> only
>>>>> drive away
>>>>> new people who may not be familiar with hacker culture. If
>>>>> we
>>>>> try to
>>>>> make an effort to become friends with them, then we can
>>>>> encourage
>>>>> newcomers to contribute and learn to become hackers by
>>>>> involving them
>>>>> with our projects. Instead of rejecting them, we should be
>>>>> trying to
>>>>> encourage them to become productive participants in our
>>>>> community.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -Carl
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler -
>>>>> Albert
>>>>> Einstein
>>>>> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo Da Vinci
>>>>> Perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when
>>>>> there is nothing left to take away - Antoine de Saint Exup?ry
>>>>>
>>>>> Keep It Simple Stupid - Kelly Johnson
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler - Albert
>>> Einstein
>>> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo Da Vinci
>>> Perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when
>>> there
>>> is nothing left to take away - Antoine de Saint Exup?ry
>>>
>>> Keep It Simple Stupid - Kelly Johnson
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>
>
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