[Noisebridge-discuss] Lack of due process when Cynthia forced to leave
jim
jim at systemateka.com
Fri May 4 00:31:52 UTC 2012
I think so, given that a few of us feel in the
dark as well as unhappy with the action.
On Thu, 2012-05-03 at 17:18 -0700, Joseph Brenner wrote:
> The people who were actually there and made the call, did not want to
> discuss it on list, they wanted to save it for the meeting.
>
> Would hashing things out a second time here, for the people who don't
> go to meetings, actually help in any way?
>
>
> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 4:58 PM, Corey McGuire <coreyfro at coreyfro.com> wrote:
> > Irony is lost on this one.
> >
> > How about this, "Will someone, for the love of FUCKING GOD or ALLAH or SATAN
> > or STALLMAN tell me what the fuck she did wrong?"
> >
> > Feynman, help us.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 4:40 PM, Jake <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> except that it's not funny, and Jesse's actions are making noisebridge
> >> look bad. and getting the police to come over.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, 3 May 2012, Corey McGuire wrote:
> >>
> >>> You know...it's funny. I still have no idea what she did wrong.
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 3:43 PM, rachel lyra hospodar
> >>> <rachelyra at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The last time I talked to her about it, Erica was no longer feeling
> >>> welcome because Jesse (the same jesse) told her she wasn't
> >>> enough of a hacker and she should leave.
> >>>
> >>> This after she had to ask him to stop calling her at 3am.
> >>>
> >>> R.
> >>>
> >>> On May 3, 2012 3:02 PM, "Jake" <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
> >>> I couldn't have said it better myself.
> >>>
> >>> Why is Erica no longer feeling welcome?
> >>>
> >>> I have to say, I have noticed that some people (including
> >>> Jesse for sure)
> >>> seem to be fulfilling my prediction that we could swing around
> >>> into the
> >>> reactionary zone after we started dealing with the occupiers.
> >>>
> >>> Please re-read the below and let's not make the same mistakes
> >>> again.
> >>> Calling the police is a LAST RESORT and shows bad judgement on
> >>> the part of
> >>> the people who did it.
> >>>
> >>> What would Jesse or Will have done if a couple of female
> >>> members told them
> >>> to leave?
> >>>
> >>> Carl said:
> >>> You know I don't post here all that much, but I really felt
> >>> that I had
> >>> to respond to this...
> >>>
> >>> I've read through all of the comments about what transpired
> >>> with
> >>> Cynthia, on the discuss list and the meeting notes. Although
> >>> I haven't
> >>> been present at Noisebridge during the past week, from what
> >>> I've read so
> >>> far, I am really not pleased about how people involved in this
> >>> situation
> >>> treated her. (This would include Jesse, Will, and apparently
> >>> a third
> >>> man.)
> >>>
> >>> First of all, calling the police really should not be done
> >>> unless:
> >>>
> >>> 1. Someone is harming or threatening harm to another person,
> >>> causing
> >>> damage to the space, stealing, or otherwise causing trouble or
> >>> performing an illegal activity.
> >>>
> >>> 2. A person who has been officially banned from the space
> >>> refuses to
> >>> leave. And by "official", I mean a due process has been
> >>> followed
> >>> whereas a previous discussion and consensus was taken to ban a
> >>> particular person.
> >>>
> >>> 3. AND ONLY AFTER the Noisebridge community are unable to
> >>> handle the
> >>> situation on our own should we get the police involved.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I find it troubling when individuals take it upon themselves
> >>> to forcibly
> >>> remove people from the space, who by all accounts of what I've
> >>> read, did
> >>> NOT cause any trouble prior to being asked to leave. I
> >>> believe it was
> >>> wrong for Jesse and Will to have done what they did in this
> >>> case, prior
> >>> to taking it up at a meeting where the members could discuss
> >>> and make a
> >>> decision as to whether to ban Cynthia from the space, AND ONLY
> >>> AFTER
> >>> this discussion and consensus would it be appropriate to ask
> >>> someone to
> >>> not return. (and as she brought up, informing her of this
> >>> could have
> >>> been done through email prior to her arrival in order to avoid
> >>> this
> >>> confrontation.)
> >>>
> >>> I am also troubled by the flippant and immature responses on
> >>> this list
> >>> about Cynthia being "crazy". Her past talk of legal actions
> >>> against
> >>> Texas corporations has no bearing on what transpired. As far
> >>> as I can
> >>> tell, she hasn't forng more people than prior to when the
> >>> Oogles started
> >>> arriving at the space. The first time Noisebridge ever banned
> >>> anyone,
> >>> it took considerable discussion and a consensus process.
> >>> Nowadays it
> >>> seems like any member can just ban anyone they don't like.
> >>> How and why
> >>> did we get to this point? And I'm not just talking about
> >>> Cynthia here,
> >>> but others as well. (take Erica for example, who no longer
> >>> feels
> >>> welcome here.)
> >>>
> >>> And lastly, I think we need to stop this witch-hunt non-hacker
> >>> hate
> >>> mentality that we seem to be developing here, which will only
> >>> drive away
> >>> new people who may not be familiar with hacker culture. If we
> >>> try to
> >>> make an effort to become friends with them, then we can
> >>> encourage
> >>> newcomers to contribute and learn to become hackers by
> >>> involving them
> >>> with our projects. Instead of rejecting them, we should be
> >>> trying to
> >>> encourage them to become productive participants in our
> >>> community.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -Carl
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>>
> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler - Albert
> >>> Einstein
> >>> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo Da Vinci
> >>> Perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when
> >>> there is nothing left to take away - Antoine de Saint Exup?ry
> >>>
> >>> Keep It Simple Stupid - Kelly Johnson
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler - Albert
> > Einstein
> > Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo Da Vinci
> > Perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when there
> > is nothing left to take away - Antoine de Saint Exupéry
> >
> > Keep It Simple Stupid - Kelly Johnson
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >
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