[Noisebridge-discuss] Lack of due process when Cynthia forced to leave
jim
jim at systemateka.com
Fri May 4 00:52:00 UTC 2012
Why?
On Thu, 2012-05-03 at 17:42 -0700, Corey McGuire wrote:
> OK, I read the meeting notes. This...is...in fact...bullshit.
>
> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 5:39 PM, Corey McGuire <coreyfro at coreyfro.com>
> wrote:
> Joe, I have no idea who you are. As far as I know, I've never
> seen you there. Who's the troll?
>
>
> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Joseph Brenner
> <doomvox at gmail.com> wrote:
> Uh huh. And when people aren't actually willing to
> show their face to
> talk something out, they sound a lot like an internet
> troll that
> doesn't need to be taken seriously.
>
> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Jake <jake at spaz.org>
> wrote:
> > yes because whenever people say something is too
> horrible to possibly
> > discuss in an open listserve, where we talk about
> everything else, it just
> > sounds like there's really nothing to say and
> they're trying to cover the
> > lack of justification for what they did with
> secrecy.
> >
> > let's hear it.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 3 May 2012, Joseph Brenner wrote:
> >
> >> The people who were actually there and made the
> call, did not want to
> >> discuss it on list, they wanted to save it for the
> meeting.
> >>
> >> Would hashing things out a second time here, for
> the people who don't
> >> go to meetings, actually help in any way?
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 4:58 PM, Corey McGuire
> <coreyfro at coreyfro.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Irony is lost on this one.
> >>>
> >>> How about this, "Will someone, for the love of
> FUCKING GOD or ALLAH or
> >>> SATAN
> >>> or STALLMAN tell me what the fuck she did wrong?"
> >>>
> >>> Feynman, help us.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 4:40 PM, Jake
> <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> except that it's not funny, and Jesse's actions
> are making noisebridge
> >>>> look bad. and getting the police to come over.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thu, 3 May 2012, Corey McGuire wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> You know...it's funny. I still have no idea
> what she did wrong.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 3:43 PM, rachel lyra
> hospodar
> >>>>> <rachelyra at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The last time I talked to her about it,
> Erica was no longer
> >>>>> feeling
> >>>>> welcome because Jesse (the same jesse) told her
> she wasn't
> >>>>> enough of a hacker and she should leave.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This after she had to ask him to stop
> calling her at 3am.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> R.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On May 3, 2012 3:02 PM, "Jake"
> <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
> >>>>> I couldn't have said it better
> myself.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Why is Erica no longer feeling
> welcome?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I have to say, I have noticed that
> some people (including
> >>>>> Jesse for sure)
> >>>>> seem to be fulfilling my prediction
> that we could swing
> >>>>> around
> >>>>> into the
> >>>>> reactionary zone after we started
> dealing with the
> >>>>> occupiers.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Please re-read the below and let's
> not make the same
> >>>>> mistakes
> >>>>> again.
> >>>>> Calling the police is a LAST RESORT
> and shows bad judgement
> >>>>> on
> >>>>> the part of
> >>>>> the people who did it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What would Jesse or Will have done if
> a couple of female
> >>>>> members told them
> >>>>> to leave?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Carl said:
> >>>>> You know I don't post here all that
> much, but I really felt
> >>>>> that I had
> >>>>> to respond to this...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I've read through all of the comments
> about what transpired
> >>>>> with
> >>>>> Cynthia, on the discuss list and the
> meeting notes.
> >>>>> Although
> >>>>> I haven't
> >>>>> been present at Noisebridge during
> the past week, from what
> >>>>> I've read so
> >>>>> far, I am really not pleased about
> how people involved in
> >>>>> this
> >>>>> situation
> >>>>> treated her. (This would include
> Jesse, Will, and
> >>>>> apparently
> >>>>> a third
> >>>>> man.)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> First of all, calling the police
> really should not be done
> >>>>> unless:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 1. Someone is harming or threatening
> harm to another person,
> >>>>> causing
> >>>>> damage to the space, stealing, or
> otherwise causing trouble
> >>>>> or
> >>>>> performing an illegal activity.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 2. A person who has been officially
> banned from the space
> >>>>> refuses to
> >>>>> leave. And by "official", I mean a
> due process has been
> >>>>> followed
> >>>>> whereas a previous discussion and
> consensus was taken to ban
> >>>>> a
> >>>>> particular person.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 3. AND ONLY AFTER the Noisebridge
> community are unable to
> >>>>> handle the
> >>>>> situation on our own should we get
> the police involved.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I find it troubling when individuals
> take it upon themselves
> >>>>> to forcibly
> >>>>> remove people from the space, who by
> all accounts of what
> >>>>> I've
> >>>>> read, did
> >>>>> NOT cause any trouble prior to being
> asked to leave. I
> >>>>> believe it was
> >>>>> wrong for Jesse and Will to have done
> what they did in this
> >>>>> case, prior
> >>>>> to taking it up at a meeting where
> the members could discuss
> >>>>> and make a
> >>>>> decision as to whether to ban Cynthia
> from the space, AND
> >>>>> ONLY
> >>>>> AFTER
> >>>>> this discussion and consensus would
> it be appropriate to ask
> >>>>> someone to
> >>>>> not return. (and as she brought up,
> informing her of this
> >>>>> could have
> >>>>> been done through email prior to her
> arrival in order to
> >>>>> avoid
> >>>>> this
> >>>>> confrontation.)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I am also troubled by the flippant
> and immature responses on
> >>>>> this list
> >>>>> about Cynthia being "crazy". Her
> past talk of legal actions
> >>>>> against
> >>>>> Texas corporations has no bearing on
> what transpired. As
> >>>>> far
> >>>>> as I can
> >>>>> tell, she hasn't forng more people
> than prior to when the
> >>>>> Oogles started
> >>>>> arriving at the space. The first
> time Noisebridge ever
> >>>>> banned
> >>>>> anyone,
> >>>>> it took considerable discussion and a
> consensus process.
> >>>>> Nowadays it
> >>>>> seems like any member can just ban
> anyone they don't like.
> >>>>> How and why
> >>>>> did we get to this point? And I'm
> not just talking about
> >>>>> Cynthia here,
> >>>>> but others as well. (take Erica for
> example, who no longer
> >>>>> feels
> >>>>> welcome here.)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And lastly, I think we need to stop
> this witch-hunt
> >>>>> non-hacker
> >>>>> hate
> >>>>> mentality that we seem to be
> developing here, which will
> >>>>> only
> >>>>> drive away
> >>>>> new people who may not be familiar
> with hacker culture. If
> >>>>> we
> >>>>> try to
> >>>>> make an effort to become friends with
> them, then we can
> >>>>> encourage
> >>>>> newcomers to contribute and learn to
> become hackers by
> >>>>> involving them
> >>>>> with our projects. Instead of
> rejecting them, we should be
> >>>>> trying to
> >>>>> encourage them to become productive
> participants in our
> >>>>> community.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -Carl
> >>>>>
> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>>>>
> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>>>>
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Everything should be made as simple as possible,
> but no simpler -
> >>>>> Albert
> >>>>> Einstein
> >>>>> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication -
> Leonardo Da Vinci
> >>>>> Perfection is reached not when there is nothing
> left to add, but when
> >>>>> there is nothing left to take away - Antoine de
> Saint Exup?ry
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Keep It Simple Stupid - Kelly Johnson
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Everything should be made as simple as possible,
> but no simpler - Albert
> >>> Einstein
> >>> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication -
> Leonardo Da Vinci
> >>> Perfection is reached not when there is nothing
> left to add, but when
> >>> there
> >>> is nothing left to take away - Antoine de Saint
> Exup?ry
> >>>
> >>> Keep It Simple Stupid - Kelly Johnson
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>>
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no
> simpler - Albert Einstein
> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo Da Vinci
>
> Perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add,
> but when there is nothing left to take away - Antoine de Saint
> Exupéry
>
> Keep It Simple Stupid - Kelly Johnson
>
>
>
>
> --
> Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler -
> Albert Einstein
> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo Da Vinci
> Perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when
> there is nothing left to take away - Antoine de Saint Exupéry
> Keep It Simple Stupid - Kelly Johnson
> _______________________________________________
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
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