[Noisebridge-discuss] Some interesting thoughts on "benevolent sexism"

Gavin Knight gnnrok at gmail.com
Sat Apr 6 08:18:43 UTC 2013


Did you see this article 2 days ago anyone?
http://health.yahoo.net/experts/dayinhealth/surprising-differences-between-male-and-female-brain200


On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 12:05 AM, Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:

> Or a Dick, perhaps.  :D
>
> Yeah, the analogy was a stretch, but I went ahead and made it anyway.
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 11:15 PM, macegr <garrettmace at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Actually, I think it's more accurate to say that now I understand a
>> little bit of how it feels to be a Tom, Dave, Bill, or John. :)
>>
>>
>> On Apr 5, 2013, at 9:16 PM, Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Heh, now you know something of how a lot of us women felt when getting on
>> the internet a decade or more ago (and for many, even still).  I have been
>> using neutral-gender online handles since 1995.
>>
>> --Naomi aka nthmost aka venix aka 101101 ...
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 7:48 PM, Garrett Mace <garrettmace at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not happy with the risk that anyone might confuse me with Garrett
>>> Smith, since it appears we have some major differences in many viewpoints
>>> despite having the same uncommon first name. I am going to come up with a
>>> pseudonym to use on this list as I'm no longer comfortable using my own.
>>>
>>> --- Garrett Mace, (non-jerk)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 5, 2013, at 4:22 PM, Lyra <elevin at MIT.EDU> wrote:
>>>
>>> Naomi, you are of course welcome to keep fighting with him. I just don't
>>> find that fun or useful, so I won't.
>>>
>>> Rachel Lyra! Very true. That being said, we can (and should) work to
>>> improve ourselves and our world simultaneously. It seems there are
>>> different hosts benevolent (or not so) sexism may reside in and different
>>> ways to combat it in each case.
>>>
>>> For ourselves, the hard part is noticing. This would be made far easier
>>> if it were more socially okay for people to call us out on such behavior.
>>> For example, a friend mentioned to me that when I used the word 'dick' for
>>> a mean person, I was  reinforcing the idea of men being synonymous with
>>> jerks. I'm glad he was comfortable with telling me that, as it gave me the
>>> opportunity to change my behavior in some small, positive way.
>>>
>>> Rational people whose opinions we care about can be reasoned with and
>>> irrational people who's opinions carry no personal value can be ignored.
>>> But what about people who hold these beliefs unreasonably and for some
>>> reason, their opinion must be worked around (policy makers, cultural
>>> leaders, teachers, bosses, investors...)?
>>>
>>> Lyra Rachel Levin
>>>
>>> Sent en route, pardon the brevity.
>>> On Apr 5, 2013 4:07 PM, "rachel lyra hospodar" <rachelyra at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks for this, Lyra!  I think there are a bunch of good ways to move
>>>> forward on issues of embedded sexist behaviors.  Ultimately the question of
>>>> what to do next depends on who the speaker is.  We all have work we can do
>>>> within ourselves, and the old advice about tending to the beam in one's own
>>>> eye first rings pretty true here.  Sometimes I think the most fruitful
>>>> thing for most of us to do is to encourage the normalization of a critical
>>>> analysis and discussion of these issues, as a normal and rational part of
>>>> public discourse.
>>>>
>>>> R.
>>>>
>>>> On 4/5/2013 4:01 PM, Lyra wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So I tend to just write off people like Garrett Smith - their opinion
>>>>> is
>>>>> not useful or valid to me so why waste cycles feeding the trolls?
>>>>> However, Merlin's link on Stereotype Threat clarified what is bad about
>>>>> that behavior. This isn't a small, vocal, but ultimately powerless
>>>>> group
>>>>> that thinks this way. This is a lot of people, some very intelligent,
>>>>> some very powerful.
>>>>>
>>>>> Instead of bothering with this  fruitless argument with Garrett, let's
>>>>> look at ways we can combat the source of the problem. Calling people
>>>>> out
>>>>> on unnoticed bad behavior is one way. Pro active and empowering
>>>>> education opportunities are an excellent one too (for adults and
>>>>> especially for children). Further thoughts?
>>>>>
>>>>> Lyra
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent en route, pardon the brevity.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 5, 2013 3:46 PM, "Danny O'Brien" <danny at spesh.com
>>>>> <mailto:danny at spesh.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Naomi Theora Most
>> naomi at nthmost.com
>> +1-415-728-7490
>>
>> skype: nthmost
>>
>> http://twitter.com/nthmost
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Naomi Theora Most
> naomi at nthmost.com
> +1-415-728-7490
>
> skype: nthmost
>
> http://twitter.com/nthmost
>
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