[Noisebridge-discuss] Who do we want to exclude? [Drama]

Tony Longshanks LeTigre anthonyletigre at gmail.com
Sat Apr 13 08:55:00 UTC 2013

*To the Hackers Who Lament Noisebridge Turning into an Art Space*
*this post color coded for your convenience!*
disarming sincerity

Re: "Whom do we want to exclude?"

Artists. We should definitely exclude the artists. We've been letting them
in lately, & look how much the space has already gone downhill.

I assure you that we San Francisco writers, all of us, meet monthly at an
undisclosed location to bitch & groan about those incorrigible artists
(particularly the painters). And I assure you the painters do exactly the
same in reverse. How do I know this? I have the unfortunate fate of being
both: a writer afflicted with artistic tendencies. Since hanging out with
hackers, I've even begun to pick up a juvenile coding habit. Hopefully I'll
be able to arrest this condition before it develops into something truly

Bear with me, I'm not trying to hijack or crash the thread, though I am
going to attempt to take it in a different direction. I've heard more than
once "senior hacker" complain about the (real or imagined) transformation
of Noisebridge into an art space. I have a problem with this, no doubt
stemming from the fact that 1) I am something of a Noisebridge power user
and 2) I come from an "arts & letters" background rather than a programming
one. I would like to challenge the programmers who are of this opinion to
state their position & the nature of their complaint. I will make the first
move by asking, do you of the programming persuasion not consider writing
code to be an art form?

Donald Knuth does.<http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/62/ArtOfComputerProgramming.jpg/200px-ArtOfComputerProgramming.jpg>

Also, I hear the fundraiser was a success. Although I know things like this
can be like a game of "telephone," the report reaching my ears is that
$5,000 or more was raised. (I have admittedly not attended any meetings
since the fundraiser, nor do I ever attend the general meetings, since I am
a fanatic opera-goer & have a box reserved—lorgnette glasses & all—every
Tuesday night.) While the art auction may have directly generated very
little revenue for the space, the fundraiser itself was originally the
inspiration of several of a trio of artists in the space. Despite not being
present the day of the fundraiser itself, I paid close attention to &
documented the way this event grew, as I am one of the triad who "seeded"
the idea partly with the intention of observing the growth of a social

Something to chew on. Respond with outrage, ignore, &c as you will; I will
be happy to reply in kind.

Personally, I do not want Noisebridge to become a social services center or
shelter, & have fought against that from the beginning despite my own
status as a semi-houseless, poverty-blessed nomad. On the other hand, I
think Noisebridge makes/would make a beautiful art space: I have this dream
of artists & coders coexisting peaceably side by side, which on certain
days recently looks close to becoming a reality.


On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 11:19 PM, Danny O'Brien <danny at spesh.com> wrote:

> So, it's explicitly forbidden for us in the lease to go up on the roof. We
> have an explicit carefully negotiated exemption for fitting aerials, but
> email rack before even thinking about doing that.
> Here is our lease, for later endless discussion and Internet lawyering.
> https://www.noisebridge.net/images/e/ef/2169_Mission_signed_lease-cleaned.pdf
> Don't smoke on the fire escape because the smoke gets back in the space,
> it drops ashes on our downstairs neighbours' oranges, and it makes our
> other neighbours' child ill. They've both explicitly asked us not to smoke
> up there, and we try very hard to be excellent to our neighbours. Please
> smoke downstairs and away from the door of the space.
> Please explain to people smoking next to the giant "Please no smoking!"
> signs, in a pleasant, carefree manner, exactly why it is not nice to do
> that, and ask them to go downstairs and smoke. Please ask them to tell
> their friends why they should not smoke. A child's asthma is often more
> convincing to strangers than interpretations of the San Francisco Fire Code.
> These are good enough reasons, I hope.
> d.
> On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 10:57 PM, Sai <noisebridge at saizai.com> wrote:
>> FWIW, I remember from when we moved in that our landlord did ask us to
>> not hang out on the roof (vs being there to install something or the like).
>> - sai
>> On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 10:54 PM, Ken M. Haggerty <kenmhaggerty at gmail.com
>> > wrote:
>>> Again, you won't get in trouble unless:
>>> [_] It is against the landlord's policy and the landlord sees you or
>>> learns otherwise
>>> [_] It is against Noisebridge policy (I don't think it is?) and someone
>>> else asks you to come back in.
>>> I would guess that it would be similar to standing on a roof or other
>>> non-intentional space. There is no law against standing on your roof
>>> (otherwise you wouldn't be able to clean your roof and gutters) but if you
>>> live in a shared building most landlords will forbid it. I would guess that
>>> the same applies to fire escapes; e.g., my lease forbids me from standing
>>> on the fire escape other than to escape fires. In terms of the law,
>>> you would only become an obstruction if you become immobilized and/or block
>>> the exit.
>>> I am not familiar with Noisebridge's lease.
>>> -Ken
>>> On Friday, April 12, 2013, Curtis Gagliardi wrote:
>>>> "If you're flammable and have legs you're never blocking a fire exit" -
>>>> Mitch Hedberg (Mitch Hedberg - Fire Exit<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDrzCaC8qzc>
>>>> ).
>>>> I'm with Josh in not wanting to smell smoke from the fire exit, but I
>>>> like going out there occasionally for a few minutes.  I don't particularly
>>>> care if I'm violating the fire code or not.  Should I? If someone gets in
>>>> trouble for it, is it on the individual or is it on Noisebridge?  Either
>>>> way, what's the penalty in the rare case that something comes of it?
>>>> On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 11:50 PM, Mitchel McAllister <
>>>> xonimmortal at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> Okay, so far, in answer to the question posed autocratically in the
>>>>> original poster's message and the subject line, we have the following:
>>>>> maestro wants the police, anybody who looks like police, and anyone
>>>>> who talks to police excluded
>>>>> Andrew wants anyone using a dictionary or other sources excluded, and
>>>>> also wants his time back.
>>>>> Aly wants... what?  Not sure. I think it has to do with how the police
>>>>> are secretly writing fire codes and building codes.
>>>>> If anybody wants to sit down and rationally discuss ways we can
>>>>> encourage more excellent behavior and stop enabling bad behavior, I am in
>>>>> Turing.
>>>>> If you want to whine and complain, I'm on the fire escape.
>>>>> - Reverend Mik McAllister
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>> "You can see the summit but you can't reach it
>>>>> Its the last piece of the puzzle but you just can't make it fit
>>>>> Doctor says you're cured but you still feel the pain
>>>>> Aspirations in the clouds but your hopes go down the drain"
>>>>>  - Howard Jones, "No One Is To Blame"
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>> Purveyor of Subversive Fiction
>>>>> http://www.prismandink.com
>>>>> http://www.lunatextpublications.com
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
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