[Noisebridge-discuss] Some interesting thoughts on "benevolent sexism"

Naomi Most pnaomi at gmail.com
Sat Apr 6 07:05:26 UTC 2013


Or a Dick, perhaps.  :D

Yeah, the analogy was a stretch, but I went ahead and made it anyway.


On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 11:15 PM, macegr <garrettmace at gmail.com> wrote:

> Actually, I think it's more accurate to say that now I understand a little
> bit of how it feels to be a Tom, Dave, Bill, or John. :)
>
>
> On Apr 5, 2013, at 9:16 PM, Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Heh, now you know something of how a lot of us women felt when getting on
> the internet a decade or more ago (and for many, even still).  I have been
> using neutral-gender online handles since 1995.
>
> --Naomi aka nthmost aka venix aka 101101 ...
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 7:48 PM, Garrett Mace <garrettmace at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I'm not happy with the risk that anyone might confuse me with Garrett
>> Smith, since it appears we have some major differences in many viewpoints
>> despite having the same uncommon first name. I am going to come up with a
>> pseudonym to use on this list as I'm no longer comfortable using my own.
>>
>> --- Garrett Mace, (non-jerk)
>>
>>
>> On Apr 5, 2013, at 4:22 PM, Lyra <elevin at MIT.EDU> wrote:
>>
>> Naomi, you are of course welcome to keep fighting with him. I just don't
>> find that fun or useful, so I won't.
>>
>> Rachel Lyra! Very true. That being said, we can (and should) work to
>> improve ourselves and our world simultaneously. It seems there are
>> different hosts benevolent (or not so) sexism may reside in and different
>> ways to combat it in each case.
>>
>> For ourselves, the hard part is noticing. This would be made far easier
>> if it were more socially okay for people to call us out on such behavior.
>> For example, a friend mentioned to me that when I used the word 'dick' for
>> a mean person, I was  reinforcing the idea of men being synonymous with
>> jerks. I'm glad he was comfortable with telling me that, as it gave me the
>> opportunity to change my behavior in some small, positive way.
>>
>> Rational people whose opinions we care about can be reasoned with and
>> irrational people who's opinions carry no personal value can be ignored.
>> But what about people who hold these beliefs unreasonably and for some
>> reason, their opinion must be worked around (policy makers, cultural
>> leaders, teachers, bosses, investors...)?
>>
>> Lyra Rachel Levin
>>
>> Sent en route, pardon the brevity.
>> On Apr 5, 2013 4:07 PM, "rachel lyra hospodar" <rachelyra at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for this, Lyra!  I think there are a bunch of good ways to move
>>> forward on issues of embedded sexist behaviors.  Ultimately the question of
>>> what to do next depends on who the speaker is.  We all have work we can do
>>> within ourselves, and the old advice about tending to the beam in one's own
>>> eye first rings pretty true here.  Sometimes I think the most fruitful
>>> thing for most of us to do is to encourage the normalization of a critical
>>> analysis and discussion of these issues, as a normal and rational part of
>>> public discourse.
>>>
>>> R.
>>>
>>> On 4/5/2013 4:01 PM, Lyra wrote:
>>>
>>>> So I tend to just write off people like Garrett Smith - their opinion is
>>>> not useful or valid to me so why waste cycles feeding the trolls?
>>>> However, Merlin's link on Stereotype Threat clarified what is bad about
>>>> that behavior. This isn't a small, vocal, but ultimately powerless group
>>>> that thinks this way. This is a lot of people, some very intelligent,
>>>> some very powerful.
>>>>
>>>> Instead of bothering with this  fruitless argument with Garrett, let's
>>>> look at ways we can combat the source of the problem. Calling people out
>>>> on unnoticed bad behavior is one way. Pro active and empowering
>>>> education opportunities are an excellent one too (for adults and
>>>> especially for children). Further thoughts?
>>>>
>>>> Lyra
>>>>
>>>> Sent en route, pardon the brevity.
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 5, 2013 3:46 PM, "Danny O'Brien" <danny at spesh.com
>>>> <mailto:danny at spesh.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>
>
> --
> Naomi Theora Most
> naomi at nthmost.com
> +1-415-728-7490
>
> skype: nthmost
>
> http://twitter.com/nthmost
>
>
>


-- 
Naomi Theora Most
naomi at nthmost.com
+1-415-728-7490

skype: nthmost

http://twitter.com/nthmost
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