[Noisebridge-discuss] Who do we want to exclude? [DRAMA]

Sat Apr 13 00:33:45 UTC 2013

Give a person a fire, he is warm for a day.
Light a person on fire...

On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 3:41 PM, Mitchel McAllister
<xonimmortal at yahoo.com>wrote:

> "People standing on the fire escape are obstructions" are my words. They
> are also common sense.
>
> Here's an experiment. Stand in the doorway between the stairs and the
> space. Don't move. See how many people can go through the doorway.
>
> Now, try this: lock the door to the space, from the inside, as is required
> by law for doors to a fire escape. See how many people can come in.
>
> Even if you maintain (absent common sense) that people standing on the
> fire escape are not obstructions, they would still be unable to come back
> into the space if we adhere to the requirement that the door be locked so
> that people can not enter the space from the fire escape.
>
> And yes, re-entering is entering. Re-enter means "to enter again".
>
> What I am seeing, far in excess of suggested solutions, is a bunch of
> people kicking their heels and screaming "you can't make me".
>
> Guess what? Throwing tantrums isn't excellent either, unless you accept
> the expanded and broadened meaning of "whatever one wants to do, regardless
> of how it affects others".
>
> - Reverend Mik McAllister
> ------------------------------
> "You can see the summit but you can't reach it
> Its the last piece of the puzzle but you just can't make it fit
> Doctor says you're cured but you still feel the pain
> Aspirations in the clouds but your hopes go down the drain"
>  - Howard Jones, "No One Is To Blame"
> ------------------------------
> Purveyor of Subversive Fiction
> http://www.prismandink.com
> http://www.lunatextpublications.com
>
> --- On *Fri, 4/12/13, Andrew Byrne <andrew at pachakutech.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Andrew Byrne <andrew at pachakutech.com>
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Who do we want to exclude? [Drama]
> To: "Mitchel McAllister" <xonimmortal at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "NoiseBridge Discuss" <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>,
> "Aly Nb" <alykaplan at gmail.com>
> Date: Friday, April 12, 2013, 3:18 PM
>
> " people standing on the fire escape are obstructions" <-- are those your
> words, or the law? If the latter, then I would point out a seemingly
> glaring confound in the law, if the former, your confusion; it would seem
> the quoted law even makes an example of cases (not ours) where people are
> often to be found. The only way I can see that line making a lick of sense
> is if one can legally occupy /only/ Useable Open Spaces, which is not
> really the domain of the fire code. It's not like it's a designated smoking
> area or something. -dru
> On Apr 12, 2013 2:24 PM, "Mitchel McAllister" <xonimmortal at yahoo.com<http://mc/compose?to=xonimmortal@yahoo.com>>
> wrote:
>
> --- On Fri, 4/12/13, Aly Kaplan <alykaplan at gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=alykaplan@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> > I'd like to see the law that says this is illegal -- it certainly isn't
> > according to SF Fire Code.
> >
> > However, it is always good to be excellent to your neighbors.It may also
> > be prohibited on your lease.
>
> Retrieved from
> http://www.amlegal.com/nxt/gateway.dll?f=templates&fn=default.htm&vid=amlegal:sanfrancisco_ca
>
> San Francisco Fire Code 1030.2.1 [Chapter 10 "Means of Egress"]
>    Fire escapes and related balconies, ladders, landings, and operating
> devices shall not be obstructed in any manner. No object shall be stored on
> or attached to a fire escape without the approval of the fire code official.
>
> San Francisco Building Inspection Commission (BIC) Codes Sec. 908
>    All safety devices or equipment provided for in this chapter shall be
> maintained in good repair at all times. Fire escapes shall be kept clear
> and unobstructed and be readily accessible at all times. Upon inspection,
> the property owner, or authorized agent, shall demonstrate to the Director
> or designated personnel, that all existing fire escapes are fully
> operational and properly maintained. Upon completion of the inspection, all
> existing fire escapes shall be secured pursuant to Section 1110.3.1. of the
> San Francisco Fire Code.
>
> San Francisco Planning code Article 1.2 SEC. 135.  USABLE OPEN SPACE FOR
> DWELLING UNITS AND GROUP HOUSING, R, NC, MIXED USE, C, AND M DISTRICTS.
>  (f)(3)     Fire Escapes as Usable Open Space. Normal fire escape grating
> shall not be considered suitable surfacing for usable open space. The steps
> of a fire escape stairway or ladder, and any space less than six feet deep
> between such steps and a wall of the building, shall not be credited as
> usable open space. But the mere potential use of a balcony area for an
> emergency fire exit by occupants of other dwelling units (or bedrooms in
> group housing) shall not prevent it from being credited as usable open
> space on grounds of lack of privacy or usability.
>
> People standing on the fire escape are obstructions. Fire escapes are not
> open space.
>
> However, I also noticed that we are in violation because the fire escape
> door is not locked against people entering from outside, which seems to be
> the focus of a lot more codes, ordinances, and case law.
>
>
> - Reverend Mik McAllister
> "You can see the summit but you can't reach it
> Its the last piece of the puzzle but you just can't make it fit
> Doctor says you're cured but you still feel the pain
> Aspirations in the clouds but your hopes go down the drain"
>  - Howard Jones, "No One Is To Blame"
> Purveyor of Subversive Fiction
> http://www.prismandink.com
> http://www.lunatextpublications.com
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