[Noisebridge-discuss] Neutral Pronoun "E" Version 3

Hannah Grimm dharlette at gmail.com
Sun Dec 22 19:15:11 UTC 2013

I prefer to use terms like "they/them" when trying to be gender neutral,
because you can use them and have people immediately understand exactly
what you mean, whereas most folks haven't heard of constructed terms like
e/ze.  This is especially true if someone expresses a preference for these
terms, like Pidgeon has.  Lets try to be respectful and use their preferred
terms when referring to them.

Gerunds can be really a useful tool for eliminating pronouns altogether.
 For example, instead of saying "I think he made a thoughtless, but
unintentional, mistake when *he* referred to Pigeon with the wrong
pronouns" you could say "I think he made a thoughtless, but unintentional,
mistake when referr*ing* to Pigeon with the wrong pronouns."

With that said, it's understandable that we will occasionally muck up,
because it's really hard to break lifelong habits.  What matters is how we
act when those mistakes are pointed out: do we get defensive and angry, or
do we apologize and try to do better in the future?  I generally start with
the assumption that people aren't being malicious unless they do it
repeatedly or act poorly when called out on it.

On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 12:12 AM, Tom Lowenthal <me at tomlowenthal.com> wrote:

> Paul Monad <immonad at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Correction,  my main objection was that Pigeon was 1.  He was asked to
> leave
> > by Rayc two days before and not return before the next Tuesday meeting.
> He
> > did not honor that .  2.  When asked to leave again for that reason by a
> > group of six or seven people he refused.
> Tom Lowenthal <me at tomlowenthal.com> wrote:
> > Monad I think that it's pretty unfortunate that you chose to use “he”
> > to describe Pigeon here, despite being asked multiple times to use the
> > pronoun “they”. That's pretty disrespectful, especially while we're
> > actually having a conversation about pronoun needs.
> On 22 December 2013 01:32, Paul Monad <immonad at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Thank you I stand corrected.  Forgot E may be reading this.
> Monad, you don't get to pick Pigeon's pronouns. Pigeon has stated a
> preference for “they”, not “he”, not “e”, but “they”. Please use
> “they” what talking about Pigeon. It doesn't matter whether they're
> reading it, it still shows a lack of respect not to use their
> preferred pronouns.
> -Tom
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