[Noisebridge-discuss] It has come to my attention that...

Andrew Byrne andrew at pachakutech.com
Tue Jun 18 08:11:25 UTC 2013

I see; so modified: you asked to get a shot in your rump, at which point
you laid on the table, protested when I attempted to pull down your pants
to give you said shot, at which point I stopped and we sat in the room
until Kim came in offering weed, which was smoked outside.

And for my personal growth in this matter, the kernel of the issue is, is
that instead of waiting for you to drop your pants as you lay face down on
the table, I attempted to move ahead with the shot--unbuttoning your pants
without consulting you. At the time, you attributed this to possible
cocaine use, but have since talked to an others and decided this is
something wrong with me personally, namely, that I touch people after they
have indicated they do not want to be touched.

These are reasonable summaries of your version of events and your
grievance, yes?

I hope no-one is watching this channel at this hour; hep's soliloquy is
much nicer [gotosleepclown.jpg]. I assume this will all be on tomorrow's
agenda, but absent Lillian's attendance at the meeting, I'm also assuming
someone will advocate for her there, yes?


On Jun 17, 2013 10:11 PM, "Lillian Fleurs" <lillian.fleurs at gmail.com> wrote:
> My pants never came off for you. You attempted to unzip them without my
permission. Despite feeling violated I gave you the benifit of the doubt
and wasn't originally going to report what had happened. It was OTHER
people who had convinced me that you posed a sexual threat outside the
incident with me. The fact that you keep defending yourself from these
actions is sickening and honestly I hope justice will come, you disgusting
perverted pig. Learn some self control, consent, and respect for other
people's bodies. You don't deserve to be a part of such an amazing
community like Noisebridge.
> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 8:46 PM, Andrew Byrne <andrew at pachakutech.com>
>> To get this straight, You say you had handed me a syringe with
medication in it, don't remember how your pants came off, and thought I
confused the entire affair with a sexual advance ...until you had heard
from another person that I had given them a massage in the hackertorium and
then weeks later blew off an e-mail from them. Seeing the similarities
between these behaviors, you contacted Liz through Tony, and are angry I am
still allowed in the space. Is that a fair summary?
>> On Jun 17, 2013 7:58 PM, "Lillian Fleurs" <lillian.fleurs at gmail.com>
>>> I thought you had administered the shot on me before, but if that's the
case then I must be mixing you up with someone else who had previously
helped me. Either way, you made me feel violated, and inappropriately put
your hands where you did not have permission to put them. I wouldn't have
pushed this case had others not told me they had similar experiences with
you. I figured it was a single instance case and originally excused your
behavior because I assumed you were on some sort of substance and had
confused me saying "give me my shot in my butt" for something sexual.
>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 7:38 PM, Andrew Byrne <andrew at pachakutech.com>
>>>> You know, if I was trying to build a case in my own self-interest
here, I'd just let this stand, but I have never administered any medication
to you, ever. -dru
>>>> On Jun 17, 2013 6:31 PM, "Lillian Fleurs" <lillian.fleurs at gmail.com>
>>>>> @Gavin: It's possible that I can do a video chat for the meeting. If
anyone wants to help set that up, feel free to send me a private email.
>>>>> @Ron: I'd honestly rather not get the law enforcement involved.
Having to deal with court cases in an entirely different city is not
something I want to even bother spending my time doing, not to mention the
fact that I don't believe any crime is worth locking a human being up. I
just want this brought up at a meeting so the people who have been feeling
far too uncomfortable to show up at Noisebridge can once again feel safe.
>>>>> @Andrew: I don't recall exposing myself after you reached around my
body, all I remember is not being able to look at you and feeling heavily
violated by your inappropriate touch. You had administered my shot before
without violating my personal space, so perhaps you're mixing it up with
one of those times.
>>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 3:54 PM, Andrew Byrne <andrew at pachakutech.com>
>>>>>> Ah yes, this I remember. You laid down on the table, I moved to
unzip your pants, you deferred, unzipped them with your hand, then exposed
yourself for the medical administration you had asked for.
>>>>>> Humbly submitted to the daylight of public opinion; I've got nothing
to hide and I'm glad this is being recorded by the publicly searchable
Google alongside the NSA.
>>>>>> On Jun 17, 2013 12:46 PM, "Lillian Fleurs" <lillian.fleurs at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> You tried to unzip my pants for me, that's what initially made me
uncomfortable. You reached around my body, putting your hands very near my
genitals and began to unzip my pants for me. That's when I tensed up and
asked you what the fuck you were doing. You made me far too tense and
uncomfortable to receive a shot from you. It also wasn't until Kim came
into the room offering you weed that you actually left. Dante was not in
the room when it happened, it was only you and I. However Dante did see my
fear, shock and discomfort after the incident. And it was Dante who helped
calm me down enough to be able to receive my estrogen injection.
>>>>>>> The email I sent to Tony, which was later sent to Liz is word for
word what happened. Below is a screenshot.
>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Andrew Byrne <
andrew at pachakutech.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Since this is all out on the list, I feel the need to present my
side; it is clear to me now what this is.
>>>>>>>> For a few weeks, Lillian had asked of I could give her one of her
supplemental estrogen shots, and one night I was at NoiseBridge when
Lillian asked me to give her her shot. I said sure, she climbed up, laid
down on the table, and pulled down her jeans enough to expose her buttocks,
I readied the injection and placed my left hand on the back of her upper
thigh. She stiffened, and told me that she felt uncomfortable, so I
stopped, moved away, apologized for the discomfort and then left the room.
There was never a "what the fuck are you doing?".
>>>>>>>> It's pretty rich that /she/ is accusing me of cocaine use. It's
not out of my experience, but as I have dopamine insensitivity--ADD--the
stuff doesn't have the pleasure response for me that justifies the absurd
prices; that and the killing South Americans bit.
>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, the only other witness in the room was Dante I
think Dante was expelled from the Tuesday meeting two weeks ago and is
unquestionably her "other people"--Dante got angry when I sent him an email
invitation to a 'digital feminine' salon b/c he doesn't see himself as
feminine and started this whole process about three weeks after Lillian
left; it was then that Lillian "unfriended" me on Fb. That only sounds
trite until I add that she accepted my friend request after leaving SF for
wherever she is now.
>>>>>>>> I'd still like to drag up the Dante incident, as there were
several witnesses on my side and a documented willful misrepresentation to
Liz on Dante's. I would like to ask Liz now to retain copies of her emails
regarding this for possible subpoena.
>>>>>>>> A friend? No you saw me as a rube.
>>>>>>>> -dru
>>>>>>>> On Jun 17, 2013 11:06 AM, "Lillian Fleurs" <
lillian.fleurs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Well maybe you should have thought about these things before you
pinned me down on a table and began unzipping my pants without any
permission at all, refusing to stop even after I froze in fear asking what
the fuck you were doing. I was shaken after that. I used to like you Drew,
and it took me so long to report anything because I was worried about
hurting someone I thought was a good person. You seemed to be high on
cocaine or something, which initially allowed me to excuse the behavior. It
wasn't until other people made me realize this wasn't just a one off
incident that I decided to report what had happened. I recall you making
creepy sexual comments about others way before this incident too, so
looking back now I don't find what happened surprising and I probably could
have prevented being violated.
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 12:33 AM, Andrew Byrne <
andrew at pachakutech.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I would also like to point out the assumption of my guilt
throughout this discourse; I was told I was considered a sexual predator by
the anarcho-fem community a week before being contacted officially, and
this hateful trope has been driving me away from the space since. It will
doubtless screw with my social life for another few months and affects me
professionally; I can't even get a response from Mozilla's bug network now,
thanks to this. I know, hard to empathize with someone the mediator is
calling out, but once this is cleared up, I'd like this experience well
documented -dru
>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 16, 2013 9:29 PM, "Liz Henry" <lizhenry at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I would also like for this to be discussed again in a meeting.
I brought this up at the meeting not last week but the week before. But, I
have not been in the greatest of health and have missed a lot of meetings.
>>>>>>>>>>> It was also brought to my attention that Jesse Z. wants to come
back to Noisebridge.   I do not think this is a good idea.  Basically, I
don't want to be around people who have behaved in the ways that either
Jesse and Dru have behaved.
>>>>>>>>>>> There are so many good things about Noisebridge, and about its
openness.  To keep that good for as many people as possible we do need to
have good boundaries.  And ask people who have shown great disrespect for
others by non consensual behavior to stay away and work out their issues to
learn better behavior in some other context, rather than being in the
middle of an space without much in the way of rules or safety.  Sexual
assault and other violent behavior destroys our ability to trust each
other. I want to be able to trust people at NB, and to be able to tell
others they are likely relatively safe there.
>>>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>>>> Liz
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 8:41 PM, Lillian Fleurs <
lillian.fleurs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> A member of the community known as Andrew "Dru" Byrne has yet
to be kicked out of the community. Right before I moved he did some
EXTREMELY inappropriate and non consensual things to me that extend far
beyond creepy. I sent some emails to Tony "LeTigre", who then forwarded
them to Liz. I had asked both of them to keep what had happened to me
anonymous. I'm coming out of anonymity because it appears nothing has been
done to get rid of someone who poses a high threat to other members of the
community (both male and female, trans and cis).
>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately since I no longer live in San Francisco, I can
not show up to a Noisebridge meeting but I would like this issue brought
up, because others who still use the space have expressed to me that they
don't feel safe around Andrew either.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sorry for the drama, but I'm not the one who started it.
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
>>>>>>>>>>> Liz Henry
>>>>>>>>>>> lhenry at mozilla.com
>>>>>>>>>>> lizhenry at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
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