[Noisebridge-discuss] It has come to my attention that...

Andrew Byrne andrew at pachakutech.com
Tue Jun 18 18:52:27 UTC 2013


I think my actions here are the result of there being no framework here,
and an advocate (you, Liz) taking the position of moderator.

If this had been handled in a kangaroo court, it would have more civil.
Don't point out my aggressive pursuit of the matter on list as "part of my
problem"; point out the lack of advocates as necessitating such action, or
the assumption of guilt and broken procedures as an invitation for abuse
and fraud.

The Lillian matter, as seen /in detail/ here, had nothing to do with what
you just pointed out; my aggressive response to claims of sexual abuse is
what you seem to have a problem with.

That's your problem.
-dru
On Jun 18, 2013 11:17 AM, "Liz Henry" <lizhenry at gmail.com> wrote:

> My thought here is that Dru's responses are indicative of the problem
> people are pointing out.  His emails back and forth with Dante also are
> very indicative of this problem as Dante says "don't sexualize our
> interactions" and he continues doing so, while attempting to gaslight Dante
> and telling him that he(Dru) know what he wants better than Dante knows it
> . That is a very serious interpersonal problem.  Please consider it, Dru.
>
> I would describe this pattern (to be overly generous) as overstepping what
> would commonly be thought of as a boundary socially and physically, and
> sexualizing people and situations inappropriately, even after they set a
> boundary explicitly.  Dru's emails continue that pattern right out in
> public.
>
>
> Liz
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Lillian Fleurs <lillian.fleurs at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> @Daniel
>> The medication I take is hardly experimental and has been prescribed to
>> me by a licensed physician. It's a common prescription given to anyone with
>> an incorrect balance of hormones, including those seeking treatment for
>> gender dysphoria. At the time I was homeless and the shot was already
>> several days late because I was trying to find a more suitable location.
>> Doing a sterile intramuscular injection in a private room in Noisebridge
>> seemed far more ideal than dealing with heat flashes and excessive
>> moodiness.
>>
>> @Dru
>> I'd like to add that I was sitting far away from you, looking down in
>> shock from being violated. I kept trying to give you the benefit of the
>> doubt, but your complete denial of what happened and your inability to
>> apologize or defend your actions in a way that made sense leads me to
>> believe that my assumption that you're a sexual predator and don't belong
>> at Noisebridge is correct.
>>
>> As for advocates, anyone who's willing to stand for my side can email me.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 5:32 PM, Daniel Kelly <arrays.tostring at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> There are worse places than Noisebridge for injecting of experimental
>>> medications with needles.
>>> None immediately come to mind though.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 12:46 PM, Lillian Fleurs <
>>> lillian.fleurs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> You tried to unzip my pants for me, that's what initially made me
>>>> uncomfortable. You reached around my body, putting your hands very near my
>>>> genitals and began to unzip my pants for me. That's when I tensed up and
>>>> asked you what the fuck you were doing. You made me far too tense and
>>>> uncomfortable to receive a shot from you. It also wasn't until Kim came
>>>> into the room offering you weed that you actually left. Dante was not in
>>>> the room when it happened, it was only you and I. However Dante did see my
>>>> fear, shock and discomfort after the incident. And it was Dante who helped
>>>> calm me down enough to be able to receive my estrogen injection.
>>>>
>>>> The email I sent to Tony, which was later sent to Liz is word for word
>>>> what happened. Below is a screenshot.
>>>>
>>>> [image: Inline image 1]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Andrew Byrne <andrew at pachakutech.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Since this is all out on the list, I feel the need to present my side;
>>>>> it is clear to me now what this is.
>>>>>
>>>>> For a few weeks, Lillian had asked of I could give her one of her
>>>>> supplemental estrogen shots, and one night I was at NoiseBridge when
>>>>> Lillian asked me to give her her shot. I said sure, she climbed up, laid
>>>>> down on the table, and pulled down her jeans enough to expose her buttocks,
>>>>> I readied the injection and placed my left hand on the back of her upper
>>>>> thigh. She stiffened, and told me that she felt uncomfortable, so I
>>>>> stopped, moved away, apologized for the discomfort and then left the room.
>>>>> There was never a "what the fuck are you doing?".
>>>>>
>>>>> It's pretty rich that /she/ is accusing me of cocaine use. It's not
>>>>> out of my experience, but as I have dopamine insensitivity--ADD--the stuff
>>>>> doesn't have the pleasure response for me that justifies the absurd prices;
>>>>> that and the killing South Americans bit.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unfortunately, the only other witness in the room was Dante I think
>>>>> Dante was expelled from the Tuesday meeting two weeks ago and is
>>>>> unquestionably her "other people"--Dante got angry when I sent him an email
>>>>> invitation to a 'digital feminine' salon b/c he doesn't see himself as
>>>>> feminine and started this whole process about three weeks after Lillian
>>>>> left; it was then that Lillian "unfriended" me on Fb. That only sounds
>>>>> trite until I add that she accepted my friend request after leaving SF for
>>>>> wherever she is now.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd still like to drag up the Dante incident, as there were several
>>>>> witnesses on my side and a documented willful misrepresentation to Liz on
>>>>> Dante's. I would like to ask Liz now to retain copies of her emails
>>>>> regarding this for possible subpoena.
>>>>>
>>>>> A friend? No you saw me as a rube.
>>>>> -dru
>>>>> On Jun 17, 2013 11:06 AM, "Lillian Fleurs" <lillian.fleurs at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well maybe you should have thought about these things before you
>>>>>> pinned me down on a table and began unzipping my pants without any
>>>>>> permission at all, refusing to stop even after I froze in fear asking what
>>>>>> the fuck you were doing. I was shaken after that. I used to like you Drew,
>>>>>> and it took me so long to report anything because I was worried about
>>>>>> hurting someone I thought was a good person. You seemed to be high on
>>>>>> cocaine or something, which initially allowed me to excuse the behavior. It
>>>>>> wasn't until other people made me realize this wasn't just a one off
>>>>>> incident that I decided to report what had happened. I recall you making
>>>>>> creepy sexual comments about others way before this incident too, so
>>>>>> looking back now I don't find what happened surprising and I probably could
>>>>>> have prevented being violated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 12:33 AM, Andrew Byrne <
>>>>>> andrew at pachakutech.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would also like to point out the assumption of my guilt throughout
>>>>>>> this discourse; I was told I was considered a sexual predator by the
>>>>>>> anarcho-fem community a week before being contacted officially, and this
>>>>>>> hateful trope has been driving me away from the space since. It will
>>>>>>> doubtless screw with my social life for another few months and affects me
>>>>>>> professionally; I can't even get a response from Mozilla's bug network now,
>>>>>>> thanks to this. I know, hard to empathize with someone the mediator is
>>>>>>> calling out, but once this is cleared up, I'd like this experience well
>>>>>>> documented -dru
>>>>>>>  On Jun 16, 2013 9:29 PM, "Liz Henry" <lizhenry at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would also like for this to be discussed again in a meeting. I
>>>>>>>> brought this up at the meeting not last week but the week before. But, I
>>>>>>>> have not been in the greatest of health and have missed a lot of meetings.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It was also brought to my attention that Jesse Z. wants to come
>>>>>>>> back to Noisebridge.   I do not think this is a good idea.  Basically, I
>>>>>>>> don't want to be around people who have behaved in the ways that either
>>>>>>>> Jesse and Dru have behaved.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are so many good things about Noisebridge, and about its
>>>>>>>> openness.  To keep that good for as many people as possible we do need to
>>>>>>>> have good boundaries.  And ask people who have shown great disrespect for
>>>>>>>> others by non consensual behavior to stay away and work out their issues to
>>>>>>>> learn better behavior in some other context, rather than being in the
>>>>>>>> middle of an space without much in the way of rules or safety.  Sexual
>>>>>>>> assault and other violent behavior destroys our ability to trust each
>>>>>>>> other. I want to be able to trust people at NB, and to be able to tell
>>>>>>>> others they are likely relatively safe there.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Liz
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 8:41 PM, Lillian Fleurs <
>>>>>>>> lillian.fleurs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A member of the community known as Andrew "Dru" Byrne has yet to
>>>>>>>>> be kicked out of the community. Right before I moved he did some EXTREMELY
>>>>>>>>> inappropriate and non consensual things to me that extend far beyond
>>>>>>>>> creepy. I sent some emails to Tony "LeTigre", who then forwarded them to
>>>>>>>>> Liz. I had asked both of them to keep what had happened to me anonymous.
>>>>>>>>> I'm coming out of anonymity because it appears nothing has been done to get
>>>>>>>>> rid of someone who poses a high threat to other members of the community
>>>>>>>>> (both male and female, trans and cis).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately since I no longer live in San Francisco, I can not
>>>>>>>>> show up to a Noisebridge meeting but I would like this issue brought up,
>>>>>>>>> because others who still use the space have expressed to me that they don't
>>>>>>>>> feel safe around Andrew either.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm sorry for the drama, but I'm not the one who started it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
>>>>>>>> Liz Henry
>>>>>>>> lhenry at mozilla.com
>>>>>>>> lizhenry at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
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>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
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>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
> Liz Henry
> lhenry at mozilla.com
> lizhenry at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
>
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