[Noisebridge-discuss] It has come to my attention that...

[Jeffrey Carl Faden]

Just throwing in my +1 here. Really wish this hackerspace was not a place
for breakfast hacking or sleep hacking or dog poop hacking or drug dealing
hacking (yes guys in Church on Monday, I did see you selling weed in Church
on Monday - my bad that all I did was scowl).

None of the above actually help the space achieve its stated goals. Hate to
say it, but I expect much more traditional hacking from a hackerspace.

Sure you might not currently have a home, but Noisebridge is not a hostel
or a halfway house.

Jeffrey

On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 2:32 AM, Danny O'Brien <danny at spesh.com> wrote:

> You see, this is just what I'm talking about. You unzip someone's pants
> without their permission ONCE in a hackerspace, and suddenly everyone is
> acting like that's not a mistake that *anyone* could make.
>
> I think pretty much that Noisebridge would die tomorrow if we to take the
> extreme action of telling people who are all about the injecting, or the
> unzipping, or the nazi tattooing,  and asked them never to come back. It's
> almost certain to me that people to inject or unzip or white power
> tattoo-wield, are the lifeblood of any hackerspace.
>
> The oversensitive people who freak out and never come back because
> Noisebridge seems to be filled with people who see absolutely no problem in
> injecting medicine, unzipping clothes and then stoutly defend their act in
> the face of the person who they unzipped going WTF, or hanging around
> without thinking that maybe, just maybe, their white power tattoo might be
> a bit... how can I say, de trop.
>
>
>
>
>
> I'm joking of course.
>
> What I mean to say here is: WHAT THE FUCK? WHAT THE LIVING, FUCKING FUCK
> FUCK THE FUCK?
>
> Are you people so *INSANE* that you think that ANY OF THIS is acceptable
> behaviour ANYWHERE?
>
> Have you wandered SO FAR off the MAIN SEQUENCE of HUMANITY that you think
> that not only ANY OF THIS STUFF is okay, and not the stuff of writing "okay
> boy i fucked up really badly there maybe i'm going to spend like six months
> with just me a copy of the world's literature and Eliza, the AI therapist
> to work out how to sort my screwed out self out", let alone posting screeds
> EVEN LONGER THAN THIS one stoutly defending yourself and thinking there is
> some sort of power-structure conspiracy to persecute you from your
> god-given right to spend hours a day unzipping and zipping in A ROOM WITH
> SOME 3D PRINTERS IN IT?
>
> Look, together I am happy to work with people to create amazing tools and
> think new thoughts, have funny stories to tell, and strange robots to
> build, but I am finally fading in the jolly side-activity of gently guiding
> people in the apparently tricky task of not spending THREE DAYS IN A ROW
> without doing something so INCOMPREHENDINGLY AND UNCONSCIOUSLY
> TRANSGRESSIVE that they don't even anticipate anyone raising a single
> spock-like eyebrow.
>
> Let me count the ways here:
>
> 1) Spraying your art endlessly over the space until people coming in can't
> blink without the after-image stencil of a stockinged lady burned into your
> retina, and then being amazed when people ask you to maybe stick to just
> the one beautiful expression of your novelty.
>
> 2) Sitting for 6 hours plus watching YouTube waggling your head like
> you're channelling the spirit every headbanger who has died of an embolism,
> and then crying censorship when someone hacks the DNS to redirect YouTube
> and Facebook to our wiki.
>
> 3) Deciding to hide out in a tiny space only accessible by the elevator,
> then ALMOST DYING when the elevator breaks OBVIOUSLY, fighting out through
> a wall, THEN COMING BACK TO THE SPACE AS THOUGH NOTHING HAS HAPPENED.
>
> 4) Answering EVERY move to throw some sorry person's ass out by saying
> "but $PERSON does $MUCH_WORSE_THING" as though anyone is going to go "Oh
> good point, in the interest of natural justice and to fight our own
> hypocrisy, we should let off the guy who is making sarin in the fridge
> because we didn't quite catch the lady refining uranium 235 in the
> lavatories last week", instead of expecting the obvious reply "WHY THE HELL
> DID YOU NOT STOP THE $PERSON instead of waiting for somebody else to do it"
>
> 5) Endlessly bitching about the terrifying threat of the "members"
> imposing their restrictive culture on the free and easy environment of the
> "non-members"' using their tyrannous non-democratic rules, when a) nobody
> knows who the hell is a member and who isn't anyway, and none of the
> members care, and b) simultaneously complaining that the MEMBERS need to
> step up and throw out the people you don't like, but who apparently you
> can't quite work out a reason to throw out that might not also include
> yourself.
>
> I realise that out of the above, the unzipping thing applies to you Dru,
> but seriously, dude, it's not like this is the only person saying you do
> VERY CREEPY THINGS.
>
> You know how many people say "you do very creepy things" to 90% of the
> population? NOBODY SAYS THAT TO THEM. Y
>
> ou know what people who get told "you do creepy things" generally do? THEY
> STOP DOING THE CREEPY THINGS.
>
> They do NOT construct a random conspiracy theory of people who are trying
> to exclude them for unknown reasons (but which may have to do with an
> undeniable World Conspiracy Against Creepy Unzipperers)
>
> Yes, I know "but Weev", I know "but free speech", I know 'but anarchy", I
> know "but consensus", I know 'but kyriarchy", I know "but crazy geniuses".
>
> Let me be as tactful as I no longer can:
>
> I CAN NO LONGER DEFEND THE COLOURFUL BEHAVIOUR OF YOU PEOPLE WHO CAN'T
> EVEN FIND ANOTHER PLACE TO EAT BREAKFAST.
>
> It is a tragedy! It is probably society's fault. But you're COOKING YOUR
> MEALS in a HACKERSPACE. This is like you COOKING AND HANGING OUT in a
> COLLEGE LABORATORY. Yes, I know we said that science is awesome and
> everyone should do it and maybe we can transform politics and art and
> culture with it, but you ACTUALLY HAVE TO DO IT.
>
> YOU ARE NOT DOING IT. YOU ARE NOT DOING ANYTHING . YOU ARE BARELY EVEN
> GETTING BY IN THIS WORLD.
>
> YOU KNOW THIS. I KNOW THIS. BUT IT IS TIME YOU DID SOMETHING ABOUT IT THAN
> BRINGING YOUR DOG TO NOISEBRIDGE TO TALK TO OTHERS ABOUT IT.
>
> The only way you can even be INTERESTING is by hanging around where OTHER
> PEOPLE MIGHT DO INTERESTING things and SCOWL AT THEM when THE INTERESTING
> THINGS GET LOUDER THAN THE DUMB YOUTUBE VIDEOS YOU ARE WATCHING.
>
> AND NO, I DO MEAN YOU. If you are reading this and firmly agree with 80%
> of my targets, but then go "hold on that's a bit too far" I DO MEAN YOU.
>
> If you go "god maybe he is right and I am not doing enough awesome stuff"
> I am not talking about you.
>
> If you have sat in the library for MONTHS and never at ANY POINT gone "I
> wonder how I can mess with that game-of-life LED board to do something
> else", I mean you.
>
> If you HAVE thought that, but you have never got around to it, you SHOULD
> PROBABLY START WORRYING ABOUT YOURSELF RIGHT NOW AND START EATING BREAKFAST
> ELSEWHERE.
>
> You are a smart, engaged person who can read email, but you need to stop
> hanging around a hackerspace and SORT OUT YOUR LIFE.
>
> I am done, guys!! I am the nice kind bearded authority figure dude who
> gets you your money to do this, and sides with Leif when everyone else is
> like "maybe we should ask the guy with the FUCK THE NERDS facial carving
> and the sixteen heroin needles hanging out of his ass" to die in a fire. I
> am the one in any given situation to be MOST LIKELY TO BE ON YOUR SIDE. I
> have complicated politics and upbringing and issues which mean that I tend
> to side with outsiders occasionally to the slight detriment of my own
> carefully shored-up and middle-class fat-cat lifestyle.
>
> I AM NO LONGER EVEN APPARENTLY ON YOUR SIDE. I AM DISCARDING MY NOTIONS OF
> NEUTRALITY TO ASK YOU TO GO AWAY.
>
> YES EVEN WHEN YOU EMAIL ME PRIVATELY WITH YOUR STUPID IDEAS ABOUT MAKING
> THE PLACE MORE INCLUSIVE.
>
> GO AWAY. GO AWAY GO AWAY GO AWAY.
>
> I heard that there is a dysfunctional free drama group in Vallejo that you
> could join! There is a writer's group in a free university that needs
> contributors! I saw a Craiglist advert for a new group therapy center run
> by friendly Falun Gong sympathisers in the Presidio! There is a couch in
> the middle of an unused lot in Treasure island! It has one person there who
> you can get into arguments about how much of the couch he is taking up!
> Maybe he will let you help him nonconsensually unzip his pants.
>
> WOULD ANYONE ELSE LIKE TO TALK TO ME ABOUT HASKELL?
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
> Who hasn't, after all, in a few moments after talking about Haskell
> monads, casually done something like that?
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 2:46 PM, Andrew Byrne <andrew at pachakutech.com>wrote:
>
>> That you think anything here involves me putting my hand down /any/one's
>> pants or that this has even been suggested, would indicate you haven't been
>> paying attention. The "bad touch" alleged here was in the motion to
>> unbutton the pants of a person who asked for a shot, then laid motionless
>> face down on a table. No skin-skin contact.
>>
>> Bonus points for creative writing, though. Intravenous? Shameless. -dru
>> On Jun 20, 2013 12:11 AM, "Danny O'Brien" <danny at spesh.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Man, how can this keep happening, Dru? Every time you stick your hand
>>> down the pants of someone while ostensibly help them intravenously inject
>>> medicine in the corner of a place that's for teaching Python, it seems like
>>> otherwise rational people leap to all kind of grotesque misunderstandings!
>>>
>>> Can't a person pursue their non-creepy pursuit of entirely consensual
>>> sexuality in a dark corner of a hackerspace without having the thought
>>> police come along and misinterpret their defences of entirely unwarranted
>>> semi-naked drug shooting up complaints by the person who had their pants
>>> entered as something *grotesque*? What's our culture coming to?
>>>
>>> This is just like that time when the white power tattooed chap came into
>>> the space, and people were in some way disturbed by their narrowminded
>>> assumption that somebody who has a creed that specifically calls for the
>>> death or expatriation of people based on their race TATTOOED ONTO THEIR
>>> NECK might be in some way disturbing to others, or worse, might even have
>>> some sympathy to that particular opinion.
>>>
>>> How do people get so prissy and close-minded that a person can't tattoo
>>> nazi imagery onto the back of their neck, then, when asked to help out with
>>> the shooting up of medicine in a dark corner of a place for soldering
>>> Arduinos, can't cop a quick feel without everyone turning into all
>>> "lah-di-dah maybe we should talk about your behaviour in a semi-serious
>>> fashion" thought police?
>>>
>>> Makes you wonder who the fuck *are* these people, anyway?
>>>
>>> d.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 5:31 AM, Andrew Byrne <andrew at pachakutech.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'd like to note: this represents the third time in this conversation
>>>> that my words have been grotesquely misinterpreted by normally quite
>>>> reasonable people.
>>>>  On Jun 19, 2013 2:58 PM, "Nicholas LoCicero" <nick.locicero at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Okay Dru, you're just trying to make everything worse for yourself and
>>>>> then be able to blame others for why you can't come back.  We understand.
>>>>>  And we're here to help you, Dru.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Andrew Byrne <andrew at pachakutech.com
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Radical scene"
>>>>>> "Extralegal venue" = us determining guilt, innocence or mediation so
>>>>>> we can ask people to leave or not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And yes, let's lock out people who are creepy and predatory.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let's also recognize trolls.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -dru
>>>>>> On Jun 19, 2013 10:40 AM, "rachel lyra hospodar" <rachelyra at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "In the scene"?
>>>>>>> "An extralegal venue"?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe this is another case of noisbridge not actually being designed
>>>>>>> for everything. It's not a home, and it's certainly not a 'play space'.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While Noisebridge is not kink-un-friendly, as we try to be welcoming
>>>>>>> to all, it is not part of sex-play community, and is in fact on the other
>>>>>>> end of the spectrum wrt to safety. Your scene is at The Citadel, bro, not
>>>>>>> here. Come here to solder your vibrator, not use it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The space is also not a 'venue' of any kind, legal or non. It's a
>>>>>>> community space, and one that has long been welcoming to many flavors of
>>>>>>> social awkwardness, as long as the awkward comes with a core of respect,
>>>>>>> wrapped around a desire to fucking hack.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not creepy predatory bullshit, though. Nope. Don't need that, thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> R.
>>>>>>> On Jun 18, 2013 12:48 PM, "Andrew Byrne" <andrew at pachakutech.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'd also like to take this moment to examine this: my not
>>>>>>>> responding in a manner suitably respectful to the plaintiff is "the problem
>>>>>>>> people are pointing out". Because I seem to remember this was all about me
>>>>>>>> forcing non-consensual sexual contact, not writing emails that dismiss
>>>>>>>> people's feelings.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The take home here, for those still watching, is that there are no
>>>>>>>> reports of me touching anyone when not asked to and that the one time I was
>>>>>>>> asked to stop, I did--though confused b/c its a damn shot, not a
>>>>>>>> come-on--and then sat across the room. I'll repeat that at the meeting, and
>>>>>>>> see if anyone disagrees.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Those who /have/ known me sexually will recognize my strict
>>>>>>>> adherence to verbal consent. I've been in the scene for a decade now and am
>>>>>>>> quite familiar with the pleasures of consensual sex; this episode has been
>>>>>>>> both hilarious and insulting and we need to create a better way to handle
>>>>>>>> situations like it if we want to continue providing an extralegal venue.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -dru
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jun 18, 2013 11:52 AM, "Andrew Byrne" <andrew at pachakutech.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > I think my actions here are the result of there being no
>>>>>>>> framework here, and an advocate (you, Liz) taking the position of moderator.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > If this had been handled in a kangaroo court, it would have more
>>>>>>>> civil. Don't point out my aggressive pursuit of the matter on list as "part
>>>>>>>> of my problem"; point out the lack of advocates as necessitating such
>>>>>>>> action, or the assumption of guilt and broken procedures as an invitation
>>>>>>>> for abuse and fraud.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > The Lillian matter, as seen /in detail/ here, had nothing to do
>>>>>>>> with what you just pointed out; my aggressive response to claims of sexual
>>>>>>>> abuse is what you seem to have a problem with.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > That's your problem.
>>>>>>>> > -dru
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > On Jun 18, 2013 11:17 AM, "Liz Henry" <lizhenry at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> My thought here is that Dru's responses are indicative of the
>>>>>>>> problem people are pointing out.  His emails back and forth with Dante also
>>>>>>>> are very indicative of this problem as Dante says "don't sexualize our
>>>>>>>> interactions" and he continues doing so, while attempting to gaslight Dante
>>>>>>>> and telling him that he(Dru) know what he wants better than Dante knows it
>>>>>>>> . That is a very serious interpersonal problem.  Please consider it, Dru.
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> I would describe this pattern (to be overly generous) as
>>>>>>>> overstepping what would commonly be thought of as a boundary socially and
>>>>>>>> physically, and sexualizing people and situations inappropriately, even
>>>>>>>> after they set a boundary explicitly.  Dru's emails continue that pattern
>>>>>>>> right out in public.
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> Liz
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Lillian Fleurs <
>>>>>>>> lillian.fleurs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>> @Daniel
>>>>>>>> >>> The medication I take is hardly experimental and has been
>>>>>>>> prescribed to me by a licensed physician. It's a common prescription given
>>>>>>>> to anyone with an incorrect balance of hormones, including those seeking
>>>>>>>> treatment for gender dysphoria. At the time I was homeless and the shot was
>>>>>>>> already several days late because I was trying to find a more suitable
>>>>>>>> location. Doing a sterile intramuscular injection in a private room in
>>>>>>>> Noisebridge seemed far more ideal than dealing with heat flashes and
>>>>>>>> excessive moodiness.
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>> @Dru
>>>>>>>> >>> I'd like to add that I was sitting far away from you, looking
>>>>>>>> down in shock from being violated. I kept trying to give you the benefit of
>>>>>>>> the doubt, but your complete denial of what happened and your inability to
>>>>>>>> apologize or defend your actions in a way that made sense leads me to
>>>>>>>> believe that my assumption that you're a sexual predator and don't belong
>>>>>>>> at Noisebridge is correct.
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>> As for advocates, anyone who's willing to stand for my side can
>>>>>>>> email me.
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 5:32 PM, Daniel Kelly <
>>>>>>>> arrays.tostring at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>> There are worse places than Noisebridge for injecting of
>>>>>>>> experimental medications with needles.
>>>>>>>> >>>> None immediately come to mind though.
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 12:46 PM, Lillian Fleurs <
>>>>>>>> lillian.fleurs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>> You tried to unzip my pants for me, that's what initially
>>>>>>>> made me uncomfortable. You reached around my body, putting your hands very
>>>>>>>> near my genitals and began to unzip my pants for me. That's when I tensed
>>>>>>>> up and asked you what the fuck you were doing. You made me far too tense
>>>>>>>> and uncomfortable to receive a shot from you. It also wasn't until Kim came
>>>>>>>> into the room offering you weed that you actually left. Dante was not in
>>>>>>>> the room when it happened, it was only you and I. However Dante did see my
>>>>>>>> fear, shock and discomfort after the incident. And it was Dante who helped
>>>>>>>> calm me down enough to be able to receive my estrogen injection.
>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>> The email I sent to Tony, which was later sent to Liz is word
>>>>>>>> for word what happened. Below is a screenshot.
>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Andrew Byrne <
>>>>>>>> andrew at pachakutech.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>> Since this is all out on the list, I feel the need to
>>>>>>>> present my side; it is clear to me now what this is.
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>> For a few weeks, Lillian had asked of I could give her one
>>>>>>>> of her supplemental estrogen shots, and one night I was at NoiseBridge when
>>>>>>>> Lillian asked me to give her her shot. I said sure, she climbed up, laid
>>>>>>>> down on the table, and pulled down her jeans enough to expose her buttocks,
>>>>>>>> I readied the injection and placed my left hand on the back of her upper
>>>>>>>> thigh. She stiffened, and told me that she felt uncomfortable, so I
>>>>>>>> stopped, moved away, apologized for the discomfort and then left the room.
>>>>>>>> There was never a "what the fuck are you doing?".
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>> It's pretty rich that /she/ is accusing me of cocaine use.
>>>>>>>> It's not out of my experience, but as I have dopamine
>>>>>>>> insensitivity--ADD--the stuff doesn't have the pleasure response for me
>>>>>>>> that justifies the absurd prices; that and the killing South Americans bit.
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>> Unfortunately, the only other witness in the room was Dante
>>>>>>>> I think Dante was expelled from the Tuesday meeting two weeks ago and is
>>>>>>>> unquestionably her "other people"--Dante got angry when I sent him an email
>>>>>>>> invitation to a 'digital feminine' salon b/c he doesn't see himself as
>>>>>>>> feminine and started this whole process about three weeks after Lillian
>>>>>>>> left; it was then that Lillian "unfriended" me on Fb. That only sounds
>>>>>>>> trite until I add that she accepted my friend request after leaving SF for
>>>>>>>> wherever she is now.
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>> I'd still like to drag up the Dante incident, as there were
>>>>>>>> several witnesses on my side and a documented willful misrepresentation to
>>>>>>>> Liz on Dante's. I would like to ask Liz now to retain copies of her emails
>>>>>>>> regarding this for possible subpoena.
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>> A friend? No you saw me as a rube.
>>>>>>>> >>>>>> -dru
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>> On Jun 17, 2013 11:06 AM, "Lillian Fleurs" <
>>>>>>>> lillian.fleurs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Well maybe you should have thought about these things
>>>>>>>> before you pinned me down on a table and began unzipping my pants without
>>>>>>>> any permission at all, refusing to stop even after I froze in fear asking
>>>>>>>> what the fuck you were doing. I was shaken after that. I used to like you
>>>>>>>> Drew, and it took me so long to report anything because I was worried about
>>>>>>>> hurting someone I thought was a good person. You seemed to be high on
>>>>>>>> cocaine or something, which initially allowed me to excuse the behavior. It
>>>>>>>> wasn't until other people made me realize this wasn't just a one off
>>>>>>>> incident that I decided to report what had happened. I recall you making
>>>>>>>> creepy sexual comments about others way before this incident too, so
>>>>>>>> looking back now I don't find what happened surprising and I probably could
>>>>>>>> have prevented being violated.
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 12:33 AM, Andrew Byrne <
>>>>>>>> andrew at pachakutech.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I would also like to point out the assumption of my guilt
>>>>>>>> throughout this discourse; I was told I was considered a sexual predator by
>>>>>>>> the anarcho-fem community a week before being contacted officially, and
>>>>>>>> this hateful trope has been driving me away from the space since. It will
>>>>>>>> doubtless screw with my social life for another few months and affects me
>>>>>>>> professionally; I can't even get a response from Mozilla's bug network now,
>>>>>>>> thanks to this. I know, hard to empathize with someone the mediator is
>>>>>>>> calling out, but once this is cleared up, I'd like this experience well
>>>>>>>> documented -dru
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jun 16, 2013 9:29 PM, "Liz Henry" <lizhenry at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would also like for this to be discussed again in a
>>>>>>>> meeting. I brought this up at the meeting not last week but the week
>>>>>>>> before. But, I have not been in the greatest of health and have missed a
>>>>>>>> lot of meetings.
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It was also brought to my attention that Jesse Z. wants
>>>>>>>> to come back to Noisebridge.   I do not think this is a good idea.
>>>>>>>> Basically, I don't want to be around people who have behaved in the ways
>>>>>>>> that either Jesse and Dru have behaved.
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> There are so many good things about Noisebridge, and
>>>>>>>> about its openness.  To keep that good for as many people as possible we do
>>>>>>>> need to have good boundaries.  And ask people who have shown great
>>>>>>>> disrespect for others by non consensual behavior to stay away and work out
>>>>>>>> their issues to learn better behavior in some other context, rather than
>>>>>>>> being in the middle of an space without much in the way of rules or
>>>>>>>> safety.  Sexual assault and other violent behavior destroys our ability to
>>>>>>>> trust each other. I want to be able to trust people at NB, and to be able
>>>>>>>> to tell others they are likely relatively safe there.
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Liz
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 8:41 PM, Lillian Fleurs <
>>>>>>>> lillian.fleurs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> A member of the community known as Andrew "Dru" Byrne
>>>>>>>> has yet to be kicked out of the community. Right before I moved he did some
>>>>>>>> EXTREMELY inappropriate and non consensual things to me that extend far
>>>>>>>> beyond creepy. I sent some emails to Tony "LeTigre", who then forwarded
>>>>>>>> them to Liz. I had asked both of them to keep what had happened to me
>>>>>>>> anonymous. I'm coming out of anonymity because it appears nothing has been
>>>>>>>> done to get rid of someone who poses a high threat to other members of the
>>>>>>>> community (both male and female, trans and cis).
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately since I no longer live in San Francisco, I
>>>>>>>> can not show up to a Noisebridge meeting but I would like this issue
>>>>>>>> brought up, because others who still use the space have expressed to me
>>>>>>>> that they don't feel safe around Andrew either.
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm sorry for the drama, but I'm not the one who started
>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Liz Henry
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> lhenry at mozilla.com
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> lizhenry at gmail.com
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>> >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> --
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
>>>>>>>> >> Liz Henry
>>>>>>>> >> lhenry at mozilla.com
>>>>>>>> >> lizhenry at gmail.com
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>>> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>
>>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
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>
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