[Noisebridge-discuss] It has come to my attention that...

Jeffrey Carl Faden jeffreyatw at gmail.com
Thu Jun 20 17:19:50 UTC 2013


Andrew, please take this up for consensus at a Tuesday meeting if making a decision about who gets kicked out is important to you. There is no way that further argument on this list is going to reveal the actual details of what happened.

Almost everyone on this list is tired of hearing this back-and-forth. Safety is an important issue at Noisebridge, but hurt pride is not. You are not successfully defending yourself - in fact, every message you send further paints you as insecure and unaware of Noisebridge's actual purpose.

Lillian, I hate to victim-blame, but please consider soliciting help with taking your medication somewhere else.

Jeffrey

On Jun 20, 2013, at 9:54 AM, Andrew Byrne <andrew at pachakutech.com> wrote:

> Good email, good email.
> 
> Three points: as Lillian mentioned, I did not go so far as to unzip her pants-- she asked me to stop before that.
> 
> It was pretty common for other people to give Lillian her intramuscular estrogen injection in the space; I was clearing abiding by cultural norms there; she asked me to join her alone in the turing room for privacy.
> 
> It's not a random conspiracy, it's two people we would normally call "oogles" who were quite tight and one of whom (Dante) I insulted. IMO, the deliberate prevarications in the back and forth below give great credence to this idea.
> 
> <sarcasm>I love being lumped in with the white supremicists and the people who do nothing but Facebook ("oogles") <\sarcasm>, but like you said, you've given up objectivity, are tired of dialog, and would like to move on to action. It's better to paint that picture with a wide brush, Danny, but for the fact you will get egg on yourself. I'd advise you to actually read this parody of a sexual assault claim instead of jumping to the dog-eared sections. -dru
> 
> On Jun 20, 2013 2:32 AM, "Danny O'Brien" <danny at spesh.com> wrote:
> You see, this is just what I'm talking about. You unzip someone's pants without their permission ONCE in a hackerspace, and suddenly everyone is acting like that's not a mistake that *anyone* could make. 
> 
> I think pretty much that Noisebridge would die tomorrow if we to take the extreme action of telling people who are all about the injecting, or the unzipping, or the nazi tattooing,  and asked them never to come back. It's almost certain to me that people to inject or unzip or white power tattoo-wield, are the lifeblood of any hackerspace. 
> 
> The oversensitive people who freak out and never come back because Noisebridge seems to be filled with people who see absolutely no problem in injecting medicine, unzipping clothes and then stoutly defend their act in the face of the person who they unzipped going WTF, or hanging around without thinking that maybe, just maybe, their white power tattoo might be a bit... how can I say, de trop. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm joking of course.
> 
> What I mean to say here is: WHAT THE FUCK? WHAT THE LIVING, FUCKING FUCK FUCK THE FUCK?
> 
> Are you people so *INSANE* that you think that ANY OF THIS is acceptable behaviour ANYWHERE? 
> 
> Have you wandered SO FAR off the MAIN SEQUENCE of HUMANITY that you think that not only ANY OF THIS STUFF is okay, and not the stuff of writing "okay boy i fucked up really badly there maybe i'm going to spend like six months with just me a copy of the world's literature and Eliza, the AI therapist to work out how to sort my screwed out self out", let alone posting screeds EVEN LONGER THAN THIS one stoutly defending yourself and thinking there is some sort of power-structure conspiracy to persecute you from your god-given right to spend hours a day unzipping and zipping in A ROOM WITH SOME 3D PRINTERS IN IT?
> 
> Look, together I am happy to work with people to create amazing tools and think new thoughts, have funny stories to tell, and strange robots to build, but I am finally fading in the jolly side-activity of gently guiding people in the apparently tricky task of not spending THREE DAYS IN A ROW without doing something so INCOMPREHENDINGLY AND UNCONSCIOUSLY TRANSGRESSIVE that they don't even anticipate anyone raising a single spock-like eyebrow.
> 
> Let me count the ways here:
> 
> 1) Spraying your art endlessly over the space until people coming in can't blink without the after-image stencil of a stockinged lady burned into your retina, and then being amazed when people ask you to maybe stick to just the one beautiful expression of your novelty.
> 
> 2) Sitting for 6 hours plus watching YouTube waggling your head like you're channelling the spirit every headbanger who has died of an embolism, and then crying censorship when someone hacks the DNS to redirect YouTube and Facebook to our wiki.
> 
> 3) Deciding to hide out in a tiny space only accessible by the elevator, then ALMOST DYING when the elevator breaks OBVIOUSLY, fighting out through a wall, THEN COMING BACK TO THE SPACE AS THOUGH NOTHING HAS HAPPENED.
> 
> 4) Answering EVERY move to throw some sorry person's ass out by saying "but $PERSON does $MUCH_WORSE_THING" as though anyone is going to go "Oh good point, in the interest of natural justice and to fight our own hypocrisy, we should let off the guy who is making sarin in the fridge because we didn't quite catch the lady refining uranium 235 in the lavatories last week", instead of expecting the obvious reply "WHY THE HELL DID YOU NOT STOP THE $PERSON instead of waiting for somebody else to do it"
> 
> 5) Endlessly bitching about the terrifying threat of the "members" imposing their restrictive culture on the free and easy environment of the "non-members"' using their tyrannous non-democratic rules, when a) nobody knows who the hell is a member and who isn't anyway, and none of the members care, and b) simultaneously complaining that the MEMBERS need to step up and throw out the people you don't like, but who apparently you can't quite work out a reason to throw out that might not also include yourself.
> 
> I realise that out of the above, the unzipping thing applies to you Dru, but seriously, dude, it's not like this is the only person saying you do VERY CREEPY THINGS. 
> 
> You know how many people say "you do very creepy things" to 90% of the population? NOBODY SAYS THAT TO THEM. Y
> 
> ou know what people who get told "you do creepy things" generally do? THEY STOP DOING THE CREEPY THINGS. 
> 
> They do NOT construct a random conspiracy theory of people who are trying to exclude them for unknown reasons (but which may have to do with an undeniable World Conspiracy Against Creepy Unzipperers)
> 
> Yes, I know "but Weev", I know "but free speech", I know 'but anarchy", I know "but consensus", I know 'but kyriarchy", I know "but crazy geniuses". 
> 
> Let me be as tactful as I no longer can:
> 
> I CAN NO LONGER DEFEND THE COLOURFUL BEHAVIOUR OF YOU PEOPLE WHO CAN'T EVEN FIND ANOTHER PLACE TO EAT BREAKFAST.
> 
> It is a tragedy! It is probably society's fault. But you're COOKING YOUR MEALS in a HACKERSPACE. This is like you COOKING AND HANGING OUT in a COLLEGE LABORATORY. Yes, I know we said that science is awesome and everyone should do it and maybe we can transform politics and art and culture with it, but you ACTUALLY HAVE TO DO IT.
> 
> YOU ARE NOT DOING IT. YOU ARE NOT DOING ANYTHING . YOU ARE BARELY EVEN GETTING BY IN THIS WORLD. 
> 
> YOU KNOW THIS. I KNOW THIS. BUT IT IS TIME YOU DID SOMETHING ABOUT IT THAN BRINGING YOUR DOG TO NOISEBRIDGE TO TALK TO OTHERS ABOUT IT.
> 
> The only way you can even be INTERESTING is by hanging around where OTHER PEOPLE MIGHT DO INTERESTING things and SCOWL AT THEM when THE INTERESTING THINGS GET LOUDER THAN THE DUMB YOUTUBE VIDEOS YOU ARE WATCHING.
> 
> AND NO, I DO MEAN YOU. If you are reading this and firmly agree with 80% of my targets, but then go "hold on that's a bit too far" I DO MEAN YOU.
> 
> If you go "god maybe he is right and I am not doing enough awesome stuff" I am not talking about you. 
> 
> If you have sat in the library for MONTHS and never at ANY POINT gone "I wonder how I can mess with that game-of-life LED board to do something else", I mean you. 
> 
> If you HAVE thought that, but you have never got around to it, you SHOULD PROBABLY START WORRYING ABOUT YOURSELF RIGHT NOW AND START EATING BREAKFAST ELSEWHERE.
> 
> You are a smart, engaged person who can read email, but you need to stop hanging around a hackerspace and SORT OUT YOUR LIFE.
> 
> I am done, guys!! I am the nice kind bearded authority figure dude who gets you your money to do this, and sides with Leif when everyone else is like "maybe we should ask the guy with the FUCK THE NERDS facial carving and the sixteen heroin needles hanging out of his ass" to die in a fire. I am the one in any given situation to be MOST LIKELY TO BE ON YOUR SIDE. I have complicated politics and upbringing and issues which mean that I tend to side with outsiders occasionally to the slight detriment of my own carefully shored-up and middle-class fat-cat lifestyle.
> 
> I AM NO LONGER EVEN APPARENTLY ON YOUR SIDE. I AM DISCARDING MY NOTIONS OF NEUTRALITY TO ASK YOU TO GO AWAY. 
> 
> YES EVEN WHEN YOU EMAIL ME PRIVATELY WITH YOUR STUPID IDEAS ABOUT MAKING THE PLACE MORE INCLUSIVE.
> 
> GO AWAY. GO AWAY GO AWAY GO AWAY. 
> 
> I heard that there is a dysfunctional free drama group in Vallejo that you could join! There is a writer's group in a free university that needs contributors! I saw a Craiglist advert for a new group therapy center run by friendly Falun Gong sympathisers in the Presidio! There is a couch in the middle of an unused lot in Treasure island! It has one person there who you can get into arguments about how much of the couch he is taking up! Maybe he will let you help him nonconsensually unzip his pants.
> 
> WOULD ANYONE ELSE LIKE TO TALK TO ME ABOUT HASKELL?
> 
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> 
> 
> Who hasn't, after all, in a few moments after talking about Haskell monads, casually done something like that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 2:46 PM, Andrew Byrne <andrew at pachakutech.com> wrote:
> That you think anything here involves me putting my hand down /any/one's pants or that this has even been suggested, would indicate you haven't been paying attention. The "bad touch" alleged here was in the motion to unbutton the pants of a person who asked for a shot, then laid motionless face down on a table. No skin-skin contact.
> 
> Bonus points for creative writing, though. Intravenous? Shameless. -dru
> 
> On Jun 20, 2013 12:11 AM, "Danny O'Brien" <danny at spesh.com> wrote:
> Man, how can this keep happening, Dru? Every time you stick your hand down the pants of someone while ostensibly help them intravenously inject medicine in the corner of a place that's for teaching Python, it seems like otherwise rational people leap to all kind of grotesque misunderstandings!
> 
> Can't a person pursue their non-creepy pursuit of entirely consensual sexuality in a dark corner of a hackerspace without having the thought police come along and misinterpret their defences of entirely unwarranted semi-naked drug shooting up complaints by the person who had their pants entered as something *grotesque*? What's our culture coming to?
> 
> This is just like that time when the white power tattooed chap came into the space, and people were in some way disturbed by their narrowminded assumption that somebody who has a creed that specifically calls for the death or expatriation of people based on their race TATTOOED ONTO THEIR NECK might be in some way disturbing to others, or worse, might even have some sympathy to that particular opinion.
> 
> How do people get so prissy and close-minded that a person can't tattoo nazi imagery onto the back of their neck, then, when asked to help out with the shooting up of medicine in a dark corner of a place for soldering Arduinos, can't cop a quick feel without everyone turning into all "lah-di-dah maybe we should talk about your behaviour in a semi-serious fashion" thought police?
> 
> Makes you wonder who the fuck *are* these people, anyway?
> 
> d.
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 5:31 AM, Andrew Byrne <andrew at pachakutech.com> wrote:
> I'd like to note: this represents the third time in this conversation that my words have been grotesquely misinterpreted by normally quite reasonable people.
> 
> On Jun 19, 2013 2:58 PM, "Nicholas LoCicero" <nick.locicero at gmail.com> wrote:
> Okay Dru, you're just trying to make everything worse for yourself and then be able to blame others for why you can't come back.  We understand.  And we're here to help you, Dru.
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Andrew Byrne <andrew at pachakutech.com> wrote:
> "Radical scene"
> "Extralegal venue" = us determining guilt, innocence or mediation so we can ask people to leave or not.
> 
> And yes, let's lock out people who are creepy and predatory.
> 
> Let's also recognize trolls.
> 
> -dru
> 
> On Jun 19, 2013 10:40 AM, "rachel lyra hospodar" <rachelyra at gmail.com> wrote:
> "In the scene"?
> "An extralegal venue"?
> 
> Maybe this is another case of noisbridge not actually being designed for everything. It's not a home, and it's certainly not a 'play space'.
> 
> While Noisebridge is not kink-un-friendly, as we try to be welcoming to all, it is not part of sex-play community, and is in fact on the other end of the spectrum wrt to safety. Your scene is at The Citadel, bro, not here. Come here to solder your vibrator, not use it.
> 
> The space is also not a 'venue' of any kind, legal or non. It's a community space, and one that has long been welcoming to many flavors of social awkwardness, as long as the awkward comes with a core of respect, wrapped around a desire to fucking hack.
> 
> Not creepy predatory bullshit, though. Nope. Don't need that, thanks.
> 
> R.
> 
> On Jun 18, 2013 12:48 PM, "Andrew Byrne" <andrew at pachakutech.com> wrote:
> I'd also like to take this moment to examine this: my not responding in a manner suitably respectful to the plaintiff is "the problem people are pointing out". Because I seem to remember this was all about me forcing non-consensual sexual contact, not writing emails that dismiss people's feelings.
> 
> The take home here, for those still watching, is that there are no reports of me touching anyone when not asked to and that the one time I was asked to stop, I did--though confused b/c its a damn shot, not a come-on--and then sat across the room. I'll repeat that at the meeting, and see if anyone disagrees.
> 
> Those who /have/ known me sexually will recognize my strict adherence to verbal consent. I've been in the scene for a decade now and am quite familiar with the pleasures of consensual sex; this episode has been both hilarious and insulting and we need to create a better way to handle situations like it if we want to continue providing an extralegal venue.
> 
> -dru
> 
> On Jun 18, 2013 11:52 AM, "Andrew Byrne" <andrew at pachakutech.com> wrote:
> >
> > I think my actions here are the result of there being no framework here, and an advocate (you, Liz) taking the position of moderator.
> >
> > If this had been handled in a kangaroo court, it would have more civil. Don't point out my aggressive pursuit of the matter on list as "part of my problem"; point out the lack of advocates as necessitating such action, or the assumption of guilt and broken procedures as an invitation for abuse and fraud.
> >
> > The Lillian matter, as seen /in detail/ here, had nothing to do with what you just pointed out; my aggressive response to claims of sexual abuse is what you seem to have a problem with.
> >
> > That's your problem.
> > -dru
> >
> > On Jun 18, 2013 11:17 AM, "Liz Henry" <lizhenry at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> My thought here is that Dru's responses are indicative of the problem people are pointing out.  His emails back and forth with Dante also are very indicative of this problem as Dante says "don't sexualize our interactions" and he continues doing so, while attempting to gaslight Dante and telling him that he(Dru) know what he wants better than Dante knows it . That is a very serious interpersonal problem.  Please consider it, Dru.
> >>
> >> I would describe this pattern (to be overly generous) as overstepping what would commonly be thought of as a boundary socially and physically, and sexualizing people and situations inappropriately, even after they set a boundary explicitly.  Dru's emails continue that pattern right out in public.  
> >>
> >>
> >> Liz
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Lillian Fleurs <lillian.fleurs at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> @Daniel
> >>> The medication I take is hardly experimental and has been prescribed to me by a licensed physician. It's a common prescription given to anyone with an incorrect balance of hormones, including those seeking treatment for gender dysphoria. At the time I was homeless and the shot was already several days late because I was trying to find a more suitable location. Doing a sterile intramuscular injection in a private room in Noisebridge seemed far more ideal than dealing with heat flashes and excessive moodiness.
> >>>
> >>> @Dru
> >>> I'd like to add that I was sitting far away from you, looking down in shock from being violated. I kept trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but your complete denial of what happened and your inability to apologize or defend your actions in a way that made sense leads me to believe that my assumption that you're a sexual predator and don't belong at Noisebridge is correct. 
> >>>
> >>> As for advocates, anyone who's willing to stand for my side can email me.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 5:32 PM, Daniel Kelly <arrays.tostring at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> There are worse places than Noisebridge for injecting of experimental medications with needles.
> >>>> None immediately come to mind though.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 12:46 PM, Lillian Fleurs <lillian.fleurs at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You tried to unzip my pants for me, that's what initially made me uncomfortable. You reached around my body, putting your hands very near my genitals and began to unzip my pants for me. That's when I tensed up and asked you what the fuck you were doing. You made me far too tense and uncomfortable to receive a shot from you. It also wasn't until Kim came into the room offering you weed that you actually left. Dante was not in the room when it happened, it was only you and I. However Dante did see my fear, shock and discomfort after the incident. And it was Dante who helped calm me down enough to be able to receive my estrogen injection. 
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The email I sent to Tony, which was later sent to Liz is word for word what happened. Below is a screenshot.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Andrew Byrne <andrew at pachakutech.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Since this is all out on the list, I feel the need to present my side; it is clear to me now what this is.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> For a few weeks, Lillian had asked of I could give her one of her supplemental estrogen shots, and one night I was at NoiseBridge when Lillian asked me to give her her shot. I said sure, she climbed up, laid down on the table, and pulled down her jeans enough to expose her buttocks, I readied the injection and placed my left hand on the back of her upper thigh. She stiffened, and told me that she felt uncomfortable, so I stopped, moved away, apologized for the discomfort and then left the room. There was never a "what the fuck are you doing?".
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> It's pretty rich that /she/ is accusing me of cocaine use. It's not out of my experience, but as I have dopamine insensitivity--ADD--the stuff doesn't have the pleasure response for me that justifies the absurd prices; that and the killing South Americans bit.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Unfortunately, the only other witness in the room was Dante I think Dante was expelled from the Tuesday meeting two weeks ago and is unquestionably her "other people"--Dante got angry when I sent him an email invitation to a 'digital feminine' salon b/c he doesn't see himself as feminine and started this whole process about three weeks after Lillian left; it was then that Lillian "unfriended" me on Fb. That only sounds trite until I add that she accepted my friend request after leaving SF for wherever she is now.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'd still like to drag up the Dante incident, as there were several witnesses on my side and a documented willful misrepresentation to Liz on Dante's. I would like to ask Liz now to retain copies of her emails regarding this for possible subpoena.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> A friend? No you saw me as a rube.
> >>>>>> -dru
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Jun 17, 2013 11:06 AM, "Lillian Fleurs" <lillian.fleurs at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Well maybe you should have thought about these things before you pinned me down on a table and began unzipping my pants without any permission at all, refusing to stop even after I froze in fear asking what the fuck you were doing. I was shaken after that. I used to like you Drew, and it took me so long to report anything because I was worried about hurting someone I thought was a good person. You seemed to be high on cocaine or something, which initially allowed me to excuse the behavior. It wasn't until other people made me realize this wasn't just a one off incident that I decided to report what had happened. I recall you making creepy sexual comments about others way before this incident too, so looking back now I don't find what happened surprising and I probably could have prevented being violated.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 12:33 AM, Andrew Byrne <andrew at pachakutech.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I would also like to point out the assumption of my guilt throughout this discourse; I was told I was considered a sexual predator by the anarcho-fem community a week before being contacted officially, and this hateful trope has been driving me away from the space since. It will doubtless screw with my social life for another few months and affects me professionally; I can't even get a response from Mozilla's bug network now, thanks to this. I know, hard to empathize with someone the mediator is calling out, but once this is cleared up, I'd like this experience well documented -dru
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Jun 16, 2013 9:29 PM, "Liz Henry" <lizhenry at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I would also like for this to be discussed again in a meeting. I brought this up at the meeting not last week but the week before. But, I have not been in the greatest of health and have missed a lot of meetings. 
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> It was also brought to my attention that Jesse Z. wants to come back to Noisebridge.   I do not think this is a good idea.  Basically, I don't want to be around people who have behaved in the ways that either Jesse and Dru have behaved. 
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> There are so many good things about Noisebridge, and about its openness.  To keep that good for as many people as possible we do need to have good boundaries.  And ask people who have shown great disrespect for others by non consensual behavior to stay away and work out their issues to learn better behavior in some other context, rather than being in the middle of an space without much in the way of rules or safety.  Sexual assault and other violent behavior destroys our ability to trust each other. I want to be able to trust people at NB, and to be able to tell others they are likely relatively safe there.  
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Best,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Liz
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 8:41 PM, Lillian Fleurs <lillian.fleurs at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> A member of the community known as Andrew "Dru" Byrne has yet to be kicked out of the community. Right before I moved he did some EXTREMELY inappropriate and non consensual things to me that extend far beyond creepy. I sent some emails to Tony "LeTigre", who then forwarded them to Liz. I had asked both of them to keep what had happened to me anonymous. I'm coming out of anonymity because it appears nothing has been done to get rid of someone who poses a high threat to other members of the community (both male and female, trans and cis).
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately since I no longer live in San Francisco, I can not show up to a Noisebridge meeting but I would like this issue brought up, because others who still use the space have expressed to me that they don't feel safe around Andrew either. 
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I'm sorry for the drama, but I'm not the one who started it.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> -- 
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
> >>>>>>>>> Liz Henry
> >>>>>>>>> lhenry at mozilla.com
> >>>>>>>>> lizhenry at gmail.com
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -- 
> >>
> >> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
> >> Liz Henry
> >> lhenry at mozilla.com
> >> lizhenry at gmail.com
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> 
> 
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