[Noisebridge-discuss] [drama] the one where Danny flames out spectacularly

Danny O'Brien danny at spesh.com
Fri Jun 21 02:09:12 UTC 2013

Ever Falling,

As delightful as ever.

1)  Mea culpa. I have changed the subject line.

2) If your question is more accurately, "is anyone going to deal with the
serious issue", yes, they will. However, they won't do it on a mailing
list, because that is the DUMBEST PLACE IN THE WORLD to try and solve a
problem like this. You think that the thread ends with Dru going "cor
blimey, it's a fair cop, guv" and going meekly somewhere else in an
attachment, or people sending CSI recreations of the scene in Autocad? No
of course not, people actually sort this stuff out by sorting out in real
life. Then other people will freak out at the people doing the sorting out
and accuse them of a kangaroo court or mob justice or something. Look,
already in this thread, I'm sure one person is accusing me of caring more
about Noisebridge than a serious assault, and the other person thinks I'm
part of a feminazi conspiracy to silence him on bugzilla. On Planet
NotCrazyPants, we'd just sitting gasping politely at how much Bre just made
or something. Here, no-one is being nice or sane at all, and I include me,
because I am temporarily indulging my entirely rare craving to MIX IT UP.
Which brings me to my next question:

3) Ever Falling, what do you do in the space? When did you last come here?
What is it you are working on again?


On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 8:16 AM, Ever Falling <everfalling at gmail.com> wrote:

> How about instead of getting butthurt that someone called NB a "stupid
> science lab" how about you address her actual complaint about sticking to
> the topic of an alleged sexual assault like one of those smart,
> enthusiastic, vaguely sane people you try to seek out?
> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 6:10 PM, Danny O'Brien <danny at spesh.com> wrote:
>> Oh, and I should probably say despite my ranting and despite the serious
>> tone of this email, I can almost certainly be persuaded back from my
>> descent into Stalinism and back to joyous acceptance of all Noisebridge's
>> craziness, in all its forms. I'm pretty sure it would be really easy.
>> d.
>> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 7:55 AM, Danny O'Brien <danny at spesh.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 6:47 AM, Bill Gag <billgag11 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> The fact that this discussion has gone from Dru's behavior to more
>>>> people bitching about their stupid science lab being used as a resource by
>>>> homeless people is disgusting, Dru's behavior is terrible even if the space
>>>> was a fucking office.
>>>> The fact that every discussion has to be used to define the space is
>>>> irritating enough but this discussion is no place for that shit, get the
>>>> fuck out of here and be safe at home.
>>> Hey Kim,
>>> You're right that it's important to make the stupid science lab safe for
>>> everyone. But, speaking personally, I can't do that *and* make it as a
>>> resource for homeless people or people who are just generally hanging out.
>>> It's too much. It takes a lot of time and energy to deal with the normal
>>> traumatastic drama that emerges from dealing with all the problems that
>>> hacker culture has, *and* deal with people who are trying to deal with a
>>> bunch of other societal issues, like poverty, homelessness and mental
>>> illness, *plus* the people who prey on open spaces and open communities in
>>> general.
>>> It's a stupid science lab, but that's all it is meant to be. We had a
>>> science lab experiment trying to make it welcoming by just being open all
>>> the time so that anyone could come in at any time, but in the end that just
>>> end up excluding whole classes of people (including a lot of whiteboy
>>> hackers, but also hackers of every other kind), and constructing an
>>> atmosphere of entitlement with a bunch of people who aren't doing the stuff
>>> that the place is designed to encourage.
>>> I'm burned out, because the place needs smart, enthusiastic, vaguely
>>> sane people to help things run smoothly, and a great deal of my time is
>>> dominated by the consequences of people who clutch hold of it for other
>>> reasons than it was designed for, and need to, frankly, sort their shit out
>>> somewhere else.
>>> You've only just subscribe to nb-discuss, Kim, but you know that I've
>>> invested a lot of time social sysadminning trying to sort out problems
>>> among people and mediate solutions. I don't really often go off on one like
>>> this. But really, I have to draw the line somewhere.
>>> So here's one the new lines I'm drawing for myself. If you think that
>>> this is a "stupid science lab", please leave.  Anyone who seriously says
>>> that for a moment is not welcome by me, anymore. You should go. There are
>>> other places you can go, less full of horrible science geeks. There are
>>> other places you can build yourself, that might be more welcoming.
>>> We have a lot of problems, and we can't solve them all, and right now,
>>> we can't solve yours, particularly when you're actively scorning the very
>>> reason we wanted to share our space with you.
>>> I'm sorry. Please go.
>>> d.
>>>> The fact is, that making the space exclusive or anything of that sort
>>>> would NOT solve this problem, the presence of predatory men and people
>>>> there to defend them is, and no matter how you view the space, this needs
>>>> to be dealt with, because as long as humans use noisebridge there will be
>>>> this sorta shit.
>>>> Because its not a safe space. Its a hostile one, only safe for white
>>>> men with houses or jobs. Until that changes, this shit will continue. The
>>>> argument over the use of the space is merely an extension of this shit
>>>> behavior.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
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