[Noisebridge-discuss] The Thread That We Refer "Ever Falling" To When They Make Sarcastic Comments

[Danny O'Brien]

Ever Falling,

All you do on this list, *ever* is complain. I don't even think you know
you're trolling any more.

In my new role as AWEFUL TYRANT OF NOISEBRIDGE, I just flipped your
moderation bit. I'll flip it back when you say something that you value and
like about Noisebridge and make a kissy noise. In ascii or unicode, your
choice.

In my new and hideous reign everyone must make kissy noises and be friendly
on noisebridge-discuss

OH GOD YES THE POWER WHY DID I EVER DOUBT AL BILLINGS?

d.

On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 10:34 AM, Ever Falling <everfalling at gmail.com>wrote:

> >
> I think you might find other spaces that are explicitly political, aimed
> at helping the homeless, or have an social justice aim.
>
> Pretty sure this is the opposite of what her complaint was about. This
> thread was about the issue between Lillian and Dru. Any topics other than
> this should be taken to another thread so that they can work on the topic
> at hand. Is that a hard thing to ask for on this discuss list? That things
> don't devolve into yet another quagmire about what the space is or isn't?
> As crude as she put it that's what it seems her complaint was about. All
> you're doing is concentrating on the negative and continuing off topic. At
> the very least take it to 1-on-1 e-mails as, again, it's off topic.
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 8:09 PM, Danny O'Brien <danny at spesh.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 8:28 AM, Bill Gag <billgag11 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The fact that the building gets more respect than people who are sick of
>>> its classism is part of the problem too. Deal with the rapist. The issue
>>> would have happened either way, being that Dru fits the requirements most
>>> elites hold over the space, maybe not to who it did, but someone else
>>> people would have actually cared about.
>>>
>>
>> As you know, Noisebridge is a do-acracy. Is there something that is
>> stopping you from working on this problem? I and people I know have worked
>> on several cases like this, which led to people being banned, and other
>> spaces being warned of those people's behaviour. It's hard work, it puts
>> you under suspicion of working under an agenda, and loses you friends.
>>
>> You've been here a long time. You clearly make claims of wanting to work
>> on social justice topics. Why have you, to my knowledge, never done this
>> work?
>>
>>
>>> At least completely and utterly erase any leftist ties this place
>>> claims, because like stalinism, this shit is too capitalist to be leftist.
>>>
>>
>> We never had any leftist ties. We have a wide range of political opinions
>> here, mostly more unorthodox, and the organization itself is apolitical.
>> Maybe you can edit the wiki to better make that clear?
>>
>> You can totally put that we're a classist, building-centric bunch of
>> exclusionists. Frankly at this point it would really help. I will be honest
>> here and say that, in sort of reversal of you, I have become so
>> disillusioned by what I have seen by people in the space who adopt a
>> specifically political stance of the world, that I am about done with it.
>>
>>
>>>
>> God this board is such a headache I dont want to talk to most of you, I
>>> am not in that headspace, just put this back on topic of DREW and Ill
>>> debate this other shit with others once I have the spoons
>>>
>>
>> You've been hanging out in the space a *really* long time. I've never
>> actually seen you work on a project. What is it that you expect from the
>> space? What do you want to do?
>>
>> Here is what I think, brutally. I think you've spent a long time at
>> Noisebridge, without finding out about what Noisebridge is. I think you
>> hang about the space as a social environment without really contributing
>> anything to its core work. I think your expectation that others will deal
>> with problems that arise is part of the attitude that leads to others
>> exploiting the space for their own ends.
>>
>> I think you might find other spaces that are explicitly political, aimed
>> at helping the homeless, or have an social justice aim.
>>
>> As I said before, if you don't want to deal with a stupid science lab,
>> you should go somewhere else. We're a stupid science lab.
>>
>> d.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>>   ------------------------------
>>>  *From:* Danny O'Brien <danny at spesh.com>
>>> *To:* Bill Gag <billgag11 at yahoo.com>
>>> *Cc:* "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net" <
>>> noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 20, 2013 6:10 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] It has come to my attention that...
>>>
>>> Oh, and I should probably say despite my ranting and despite the serious
>>> tone of this email, I can almost certainly be persuaded back from my
>>> descent into Stalinism and back to joyous acceptance of all Noisebridge's
>>> craziness, in all its forms. I'm pretty sure it would be really easy.
>>>
>>> d.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 7:55 AM, Danny O'Brien <danny at spesh.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 6:47 AM, Bill Gag <billgag11 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> The fact that this discussion has gone from Dru's behavior to more
>>> people bitching about their stupid science lab being used as a resource by
>>> homeless people is disgusting, Dru's behavior is terrible even if the space
>>> was a fucking office.
>>>
>>> The fact that every discussion has to be used to define the space is
>>> irritating enough but this discussion is no place for that shit, get the
>>> fuck out of here and be safe at home.
>>>
>>>
>>> Hey Kim,
>>>
>>> You're right that it's important to make the stupid science lab safe for
>>> everyone. But, speaking personally, I can't do that *and* make it as a
>>> resource for homeless people or people who are just generally hanging out.
>>> It's too much. It takes a lot of time and energy to deal with the normal
>>> traumatastic drama that emerges from dealing with all the problems that
>>> hacker culture has, *and* deal with people who are trying to deal with a
>>> bunch of other societal issues, like poverty, homelessness and mental
>>> illness, *plus* the people who prey on open spaces and open communities in
>>> general.
>>>
>>> It's a stupid science lab, but that's all it is meant to be. We had a
>>> science lab experiment trying to make it welcoming by just being open all
>>> the time so that anyone could come in at any time, but in the end that just
>>> end up excluding whole classes of people (including a lot of whiteboy
>>> hackers, but also hackers of every other kind), and constructing an
>>> atmosphere of entitlement with a bunch of people who aren't doing the stuff
>>> that the place is designed to encourage.
>>>
>>> I'm burned out, because the place needs smart, enthusiastic, vaguely
>>> sane people to help things run smoothly, and a great deal of my time is
>>> dominated by the consequences of people who clutch hold of it for other
>>> reasons than it was designed for, and need to, frankly, sort their shit out
>>> somewhere else.
>>>
>>> You've only just subscribe to nb-discuss, Kim, but you know that I've
>>> invested a lot of time social sysadminning trying to sort out problems
>>> among people and mediate solutions. I don't really often go off on one like
>>> this. But really, I have to draw the line somewhere.
>>>
>>> So here's one the new lines I'm drawing for myself. If you think that
>>> this is a "stupid science lab", please leave.  Anyone who seriously says
>>> that for a moment is not welcome by me, anymore. You should go. There are
>>> other places you can go, less full of horrible science geeks. There are
>>> other places you can build yourself, that might be more welcoming.
>>>
>>> We have a lot of problems, and we can't solve them all, and right now,
>>> we can't solve yours, particularly when you're actively scorning the very
>>> reason we wanted to share our space with you.
>>>
>>> I'm sorry. Please go.
>>>
>>> d.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The fact is, that making the space exclusive or anything of that sort
>>> would NOT solve this problem, the presence of predatory men and people
>>> there to defend them is, and no matter how you view the space, this needs
>>> to be dealt with, because as long as humans use noisebridge there will be
>>> this sorta shit.
>>>
>>> Because its not a safe space. Its a hostile one, only safe for white men
>>> with houses or jobs. Until that changes, this shit will continue. The
>>> argument over the use of the space is merely an extension of this shit
>>> behavior.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>>
>
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