[Noisebridge-discuss] The Thread That We Refer "Ever Falling" To When They Make Sarcastic Comments

Fri Jun 21 06:01:30 UTC 2013

I, for one, welcome our beardy new overlord.
 On Jun 20, 2013 9:23 PM, "Danny O'Brien" <danny at spesh.com> wrote:

> Ever Falling,
>
> All you do on this list, *ever* is complain. I don't even think you know
> you're trolling any more.
>
> In my new role as AWEFUL TYRANT OF NOISEBRIDGE, I just flipped your
> moderation bit. I'll flip it back when you say something that you value and
> like about Noisebridge and make a kissy noise. In ascii or unicode, your
> choice.
>
> In my new and hideous reign everyone must make kissy noises and be
> friendly on noisebridge-discuss
>
> OH GOD YES THE POWER WHY DID I EVER DOUBT AL BILLINGS?
>
> d.
>
> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 10:34 AM, Ever Falling <everfalling at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> >
>> I think you might find other spaces that are explicitly political, aimed
>> at helping the homeless, or have an social justice aim.
>>
>> Pretty sure this is the opposite of what her complaint was about. This
>> thread was about the issue between Lillian and Dru. Any topics other than
>> this should be taken to another thread so that they can work on the topic
>> at hand. Is that a hard thing to ask for on this discuss list? That things
>> don't devolve into yet another quagmire about what the space is or isn't?
>> As crude as she put it that's what it seems her complaint was about. All
>> you're doing is concentrating on the negative and continuing off topic. At
>> the very least take it to 1-on-1 e-mails as, again, it's off topic.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 8:09 PM, Danny O'Brien <danny at spesh.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 8:28 AM, Bill Gag <billgag11 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The fact that the building gets more respect than people who are sick
>>>> of its classism is part of the problem too. Deal with the rapist. The issue
>>>> would have happened either way, being that Dru fits the requirements most
>>>> elites hold over the space, maybe not to who it did, but someone else
>>>> people would have actually cared about.
>>>>
>>>
>>> As you know, Noisebridge is a do-acracy. Is there something that is
>>> stopping you from working on this problem? I and people I know have worked
>>> on several cases like this, which led to people being banned, and other
>>> spaces being warned of those people's behaviour. It's hard work, it puts
>>> you under suspicion of working under an agenda, and loses you friends.
>>>
>>> You've been here a long time. You clearly make claims of wanting to work
>>> on social justice topics. Why have you, to my knowledge, never done this
>>> work?
>>>
>>>
>>>> At least completely and utterly erase any leftist ties this place
>>>> claims, because like stalinism, this shit is too capitalist to be leftist.
>>>>
>>>
>>> We never had any leftist ties. We have a wide range of political
>>> opinions here, mostly more unorthodox, and the organization itself is
>>> apolitical.
>>> Maybe you can edit the wiki to better make that clear?
>>>
>>> You can totally put that we're a classist, building-centric bunch of
>>> exclusionists. Frankly at this point it would really help. I will be honest
>>> here and say that, in sort of reversal of you, I have become so
>>> disillusioned by what I have seen by people in the space who adopt a
>>> specifically political stance of the world, that I am about done with it.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>> God this board is such a headache I dont want to talk to most of you, I
>>>> am not in that headspace, just put this back on topic of DREW and Ill
>>>> debate this other shit with others once I have the spoons
>>>>
>>>
>>> You've been hanging out in the space a *really* long time. I've never
>>> actually seen you work on a project. What is it that you expect from the
>>> space? What do you want to do?
>>>
>>> Here is what I think, brutally. I think you've spent a long time at
>>> Noisebridge, without finding out about what Noisebridge is. I think you
>>> hang about the space as a social environment without really contributing
>>> anything to its core work. I think your expectation that others will deal
>>> with problems that arise is part of the attitude that leads to others
>>> exploiting the space for their own ends.
>>>
>>> I think you might find other spaces that are explicitly political, aimed
>>> at helping the homeless, or have an social justice aim.
>>>
>>> As I said before, if you don't want to deal with a stupid science lab,
>>> you should go somewhere else. We're a stupid science lab.
>>>
>>> d.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>   ------------------------------
>>>>  *From:* Danny O'Brien <danny at spesh.com>
>>>> *To:* Bill Gag <billgag11 at yahoo.com>
>>>> *Cc:* "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net" <
>>>> noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 20, 2013 6:10 PM
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] It has come to my attention
>>>> that...
>>>>
>>>> Oh, and I should probably say despite my ranting and despite the
>>>> serious tone of this email, I can almost certainly be persuaded back from
>>>> my descent into Stalinism and back to joyous acceptance of all
>>>> Noisebridge's craziness, in all its forms. I'm pretty sure it would be
>>>> really easy.
>>>>
>>>> d.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 7:55 AM, Danny O'Brien <danny at spesh.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 6:47 AM, Bill Gag <billgag11 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The fact that this discussion has gone from Dru's behavior to more
>>>> people bitching about their stupid science lab being used as a resource by
>>>> homeless people is disgusting, Dru's behavior is terrible even if the space
>>>> was a fucking office.
>>>>
>>>> The fact that every discussion has to be used to define the space is
>>>> irritating enough but this discussion is no place for that shit, get the
>>>> fuck out of here and be safe at home.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hey Kim,
>>>>
>>>> You're right that it's important to make the stupid science lab safe
>>>> for everyone. But, speaking personally, I can't do that *and* make it as a
>>>> resource for homeless people or people who are just generally hanging out.
>>>> It's too much. It takes a lot of time and energy to deal with the normal
>>>> traumatastic drama that emerges from dealing with all the problems that
>>>> hacker culture has, *and* deal with people who are trying to deal with a
>>>> bunch of other societal issues, like poverty, homelessness and mental
>>>> illness, *plus* the people who prey on open spaces and open communities in
>>>> general.
>>>>
>>>> It's a stupid science lab, but that's all it is meant to be. We had a
>>>> science lab experiment trying to make it welcoming by just being open all
>>>> the time so that anyone could come in at any time, but in the end that just
>>>> end up excluding whole classes of people (including a lot of whiteboy
>>>> hackers, but also hackers of every other kind), and constructing an
>>>> atmosphere of entitlement with a bunch of people who aren't doing the stuff
>>>> that the place is designed to encourage.
>>>>
>>>> I'm burned out, because the place needs smart, enthusiastic, vaguely
>>>> sane people to help things run smoothly, and a great deal of my time is
>>>> dominated by the consequences of people who clutch hold of it for other
>>>> reasons than it was designed for, and need to, frankly, sort their shit out
>>>> somewhere else.
>>>>
>>>> You've only just subscribe to nb-discuss, Kim, but you know that I've
>>>> invested a lot of time social sysadminning trying to sort out problems
>>>> among people and mediate solutions. I don't really often go off on one like
>>>> this. But really, I have to draw the line somewhere.
>>>>
>>>> So here's one the new lines I'm drawing for myself. If you think that
>>>> this is a "stupid science lab", please leave.  Anyone who seriously says
>>>> that for a moment is not welcome by me, anymore. You should go. There are
>>>> other places you can go, less full of horrible science geeks. There are
>>>> other places you can build yourself, that might be more welcoming.
>>>>
>>>> We have a lot of problems, and we can't solve them all, and right now,
>>>> we can't solve yours, particularly when you're actively scorning the very
>>>> reason we wanted to share our space with you.
>>>>
>>>> I'm sorry. Please go.
>>>>
>>>> d.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The fact is, that making the space exclusive or anything of that sort
>>>> would NOT solve this problem, the presence of predatory men and people
>>>> there to defend them is, and no matter how you view the space, this needs
>>>> to be dealt with, because as long as humans use noisebridge there will be
>>>> this sorta shit.
>>>>
>>>> Because its not a safe space. Its a hostile one, only safe for white
>>>> men with houses or jobs. Until that changes, this shit will continue. The
>>>> argument over the use of the space is merely an extension of this shit
>>>> behavior.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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