[Noisebridge-discuss] Noisebridge-discuss Digest, Vol 68, Issue 24

Jehan Tremback jehan.tremback at gmail.com
Fri Jun 21 18:33:57 UTC 2013


Perhaps removing the kitchen would create some sort of impact on both the
cleanliness and atmosphere of the place.


On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 5:00 AM, <
noisebridge-discuss-request at lists.noisebridge.net> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: [SPAM] Tattoos vs. behavior (LinkReincarnate)
>    2. Re: [SPAM] Tattoos vs. behavior (Eric W. Rasmussen)
>    3. Re: Wade asked to leave (Liz Henry)
>    4. Wade (Johny Radio)
>    5. Re: Wade (Jeffrey Carl Faden)
>    6. Re: [SPAM] Tattoos vs. behavior (LinkReincarnate)
>    7. Re: Wade asked to leave (Jake)
>    8. Re: [SPAM] Tattoos vs. behavior (Danny O'Brien)
>    9. Re: [SPAM] Tattoos vs. behavior (LinkReincarnate)
>   10. Re: It has come to my attention that... (Bill Gag)
>   11. Re: asked james to leave (Liz Henry)
>   12. Re: [Rack] File Host? (Ronald Cotoni)
>   13. Re: It has come to my attention that... (Danny O'Brien)
>   14. Re: It has come to my attention that... (Danny O'Brien)
>   15. Re: It has come to my attention that... (Ever Falling)
>   16. Re: It has come to my attention that... (macegr)
>   17. Open space only for hackers? (Marquis)
>   18. Re: Open space only for hackers? (Ever Falling)
>   19. Re: Open space only for hackers? (Daniel Kelly)
>   20. Re: [drama] the one where Danny flames out        spectacularly
>       (Danny O'Brien)
>   21. Re: It has come to my attention that... (Danny O'Brien)
>   22. Re: Open space only for hackers? (LinkReincarnate)
>   23. Re: Open space only for hackers? (Ever Falling)
>   24. Re: It has come to my attention that... (Ever Falling)
>   25. Re: Open space only for hackers? (Ben Kochie)
>   26. Re: Open space only for hackers? (Danny O'Brien)
>   27. Re: Open space only for hackers? (Casey Callendrello)
>   28. Re: Open space only for hackers? (Ever Falling)
>   29. Re: Open space only for hackers? (jim)
>   30. Re: The Thread That We Refer "Ever Falling" To When They Make
>       Sarcastic Comments (Danny O'Brien)
>   31. Re: It has come to my attention that... (Naomi Gmail)
>   32. Re: It has come to my attention that... (Naomi Gmail)
>   33. Re: It has come to my attention that... (Naomi Gmail)
>   34. Re: The Thread That We Refer "Ever Falling" To When They Make
>       Sarcastic Comments (Shannon Lee)
>   35. Re: Open space only for hackers? (Curtis Gagliardi)
>   36. Re: Open space only for hackers? (Praveen Sinha)
>   37. Re: asked james to leave (Liz Henry)
>   38. Re: The Thread That We Refer "Ever Falling"       To When They Make
>       Sarcastic Comments (Alex Buie)
>   39. new dictatorship powers (Danny O'Brien)
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: LinkReincarnate <linkreincarnate at gmail.com>
> To: Adrian Chadd <adrian.chadd at gmail.com>
> Cc: Davidfine <d at vidfine.com>, "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net"
> <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 16:07:18 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] [SPAM] Tattoos vs. behavior
>
> Danny O'B<https://twitter.com/i/redirect?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fmala%3Frefsrc%3Demail&sig=39af58639918602993cea141f8d34334018239b9&uid=47286619&iid=62c9380d-cbb7-4bf0-9c43-d195c8924fa8&nid=42+413+20130611&t=1>
>  @mala FOLLOWS YOU<https://twitter.com/i/redirect?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fmala%3Frefsrc%3Demail&sig=39af58639918602993cea141f8d34334018239b9&uid=47286619&iid=62c9380d-cbb7-4bf0-9c43-d195c8924fa8&nid=42+412+20130611&t=1> they
> stole our revolution. we stole it back. they hired us to work on... Followed
> by Gina Trapani<https://twitter.com/i/redirect?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fginatrapani%3Frefsrc%3Demail&sig=2f3086dd2b91b3fec7938dd1a9f3d0ad19002be5&uid=47286619&iid=62c9380d-cbb7-4bf0-9c43-d195c8924fa8&nid=42+425+20130611&t=1>
>  and 3 others<https://twitter.com/i/redirect?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fmala%2Ffollowers_you_follow%3Frefsrc%3Demail&sig=46211003aed1035a69e8da821ba125d1229f44fd&uid=47286619&iid=62c9380d-cbb7-4bf0-9c43-d195c8924fa8&nid=42+417+20130611&t=1>
> .
> Following: 1021<https://twitter.com/i/redirect?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fmala%2Ffollowing%3Frefsrc%3Demail&sig=f6ae56192696e8c6c389052a1980b433090e7e52&uid=47286619&iid=62c9380d-cbb7-4bf0-9c43-d195c8924fa8&nid=42+416+20130611&t=1> ·
> Followers: 3722<https://twitter.com/i/redirect?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fmala%2Ffollowers%3Frefsrc%3Demail&sig=869014eac2e02faeeb3340c2e9c7f194d90dd188&uid=47286619&iid=62c9380d-cbb7-4bf0-9c43-d195c8924fa8&nid=42+415+20130611&t=1>
>
> Danny you must have someone impersonating you then because twitter says
> you do follow me.  I can forward the actual email from twitter to you if
> that is disconcerting to find.  If that was an invalid assumption and there
> is another explanation for the message twitter sent me then I do apologize
> and take back all of my criticism re mob rule , ends justifying the means,
> cabals and neckbeardedness. I hope you see why I would be a little paranoid
> after a call to find out my identity (as I interpreted it) followed by
> being followed by you on twitter.  For the record I am Justin.  I have no
> problem with people knowing who I am in the space and being able to
> associate my screenname with my face.
>
> Macegr I probably have gone overboard in a lot of this discussion but that
> is because racism is a real problem that happens to be a hot button issue
> for me.  I have lived under it and I really do  care about seeing an end to
> racism  but you have a point. I am getting way too hot under the collar.
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 3:27 PM, Adrian Chadd <adrian.chadd at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On 20 June 2013 14:49, Davidfine <d at vidfine.com> wrote:
>>
>> > If Robby refuses the offer, I'd like to hear about that as well. That
>> would
>> > say to me that he is in fact a member of a white supremacist group, and
>> not
>> > a good match for the community we're building.
>> > Be excellent,
>> > --D
>>
>> That's one way to interpret that.
>>
>> Another way is "damnit, I may not like it, but I don't want to go
>> through this crap again, leave me alone."
>>
>> Jumping to /that/ particular conclusion because he decides he doesn't
>> want to cover the tattoo up is just as silly as assuming throwing
>> money at the problem will fix things. :-)
>>
>> 2c,
>>
>>
>>
>> Adrian
>> (I'm trying not to troll, honest. But damn.)
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>
>
>
> --
> www.linkreincarnate.com
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Eric W. Rasmussen" <ewr at majortek.com>
> To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> Cc:
> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 16:10:47 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] [SPAM] Tattoos vs. behavior
>  Yup. That's the correct solution to the problem. Good for you! I hope he
> takes the offer.
>
> I did 6 months in prison once (real prison, not jail) and this black guy
> asked me if I agreed with the swastika folks. BTW, everyone is literally a
> "skinhead" (shaved head) in Texas prisons and the "minorities" have no idea
> whether your lack of hair is fashion, circumstance or balding. We all know
> what was happening here. I told him, "I understand how different cultures
> want to preserve their heritage. I even understand racism. I don't agree
> with it, but I understand. However, the difference between their racism and
> your racism is that they have a symbol and they literally wear it on their
> sleeve. That's just stupid".
>
> One thing that has always bothered me are the radio stations that use, "La
> Raza" as a slogan. It means "The Race" in Spanish and they openly put these
> words on billboards. They hide in plain sight because Americans are so lazy
> and illiterate.
>
> There are a lot of people that mature and understand they were misguided
> in their youth. They just need a little help to correct the permanence (ink
> in skin) of their foolishness.
>
> I'm good for $20 if needed. I have all of the tattoos that I want and
> don't know any artists. Let me know how I can help.
>
>
> On 06/20/2013 02:49 PM, Davidfine wrote:
>
> Good news everyone, we have pledged plenty of $ to get a very nice tattoo
> coverup. As far as I'm concerned this conversation is on pause until the
> next time someone talks to Robby.
>
> Please give him my email address with an explanation emphasizing that he's
> making people feel unsafe, and that we are extending this offer because we
> were told that the tattoo does not reflect his true beliefs. We as a
> community are willing to help him get that symbol covered up, which will
> open up all sorts of doors for him.
>
> If Robby refuses the offer, I'd like to hear about that as well. That
> would say to me that he is in fact a member of a white supremacist group,
> and not a good match for the community we're building.
> Be excellent,
> --D
>
>
> On 6/20/13 11:17 AM, Mike Schachter wrote:
>
> Why don't you guys take that money and donate it to a nonprofit that works
> with people who are discriminated against instead?
>
>  mike
>
>
>
>  On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 6:35 PM, LinkReincarnate <
> linkreincarnate at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'd be willing to chip in on that too provided a trusted and known member
>> of noisebridge handle the money in a transparent manner.
>>
>>
>>  On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 4:00 PM, Mitchel McAllister <
>> xonimmortal at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Currently, the only way I have to contact Robby is if he comes in to the
>>> space.
>>>
>>> - Reverend Mik McAllister
>>> "You can see the summit but you can't reach it
>>> Its the last piece of the puzzle but you just can't make it fit
>>> Doctor says you're cured but you still feel the pain
>>> Aspirations in the clouds but your hopes go down the drain"
>>>  - Howard Jones, "No One Is To Blame"
>>>  Purveyor of Subversive Fiction
>>> http://www.prismandink.com
>>> http://www.lunatextpublications.com
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On Wed, 6/19/13, Davidfine  wrote:
>>>
>>>  > From: Davidfine
>>> > Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] [SPAM] Tattoos vs. behavior
>>>  > To: "Mitchel McAllister"
>>> > Cc: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>  > Date: Wednesday, June 19, 2013, 3:02 PM
>>> > The man with the white power tattoos
>>> > on his triceps. You identified him
>>> > as Robby. In a previous message LinkIncarnate wrote "it was
>>> > what he had
>>> > to do to survive not something he believes in", which I read
>>> > as
>>> > "prison". Please excuse me if I have some details wrong.
>>> >
>>> > I continue to offer assistance to anyone who wants to cover
>>> > up their
>>> > racist ink. A couple others have pledged $, too. If someone
>>> > doesn't want
>>> > to broadcast that they are a member of a white supremacy
>>> > group, we as a
>>> > community should remove any obstacles in their path.
>>> > If someone wants to broadcast that affiliation, we can skip
>>> > right to
>>> > that discussion.
>>> > --David
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On 6/19/13 2:01 PM, Mitchel McAllister wrote:
>>> > > How to reach *who*?
>>> > >
>>> > > - Reverend Mik McAllister
>>>  > > "You can see the summit but you can't
>>> > reach it
>>> > > Its the last piece of the puzzle but you just can't
>>> > make it fit
>>> > > Doctor says you're cured but you still feel the
>>> > pain
>>> > > Aspirations in the clouds but your hopes go down the
>>>  > drain"
>>> > >  - Howard Jones, "No One Is To
>>> > Blame"
>>>  > > Purveyor of Subversive Fiction
>>> > > http://www.prismandink.com
>>> > > http://www.lunatextpublications.com
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > --- On Wed, 6/19/13, Davidfine  wrote:
>>> > >
>>>  > > > From: Davidfine
>>> > > > Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] [SPAM]
>>> > Tattoos vs. behavior
>>>  > > > To: "Mitchel McAllister"
>>> > > > Cc: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>  > > > Date: Wednesday, June 19, 2013, 1:21 PM
>>>  > > > You don't know why I'm volunteering
>>>  > > > to chip in for someone I don't know
>>> > > > in person? Hmm. I guess because nobody else
>>> > was. Do you know
>>>  > > > how to
>>> > > > reach him?
>>> > > > --D
>>> > > >
>>>  > > > On 6/19/13 1:07 PM, Mitchel McAllister wrote:
>>>  > > > > I'm not sure why you are asking
>>> > me how to get in
>>>  > > > touch with someone you are taking a collection
>>> > for.
>>> > > > >
>>>  > > > > - Reverend Mik McAllister
>>>  > > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   --
>> www.linkreincarnate.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing listNoisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.nethttps://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing listNoisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.nethttps://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Liz Henry <lizhenry at gmail.com>
> To: Jake <jake at spaz.org>
> Cc: "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net" <
> noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 16:17:50 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Wade asked to leave
> I am glad Wade was asked to leave, but it is behavior like this that
> happened for who knows how long before he was asked to leave, that makes me
> now reluctant to recommend Noisebridge to new people.
>
> My concern is mainly that the cultural norms of Noisebridge have shifted
> too far over to the side of tolerating this and similar behavior, to the
> extent that more and more people who behave in more considerate ways are
> avoiding the space.
>
> The few times I have been coming round this month during the day time
> everythnig was quiet and nice, relatively clean even, and people were
> working on things and acting respectful of each other.  At night it felt
> different, not good or safe. And the early morning was like people sponge
> bathing in the washroom and sleeping off hangovers, not a good vibe at
> all.   While I know there are good things happening and lots of people are
> working to fix the culture in general and people's expectations of how they
> can behave I am feeling  worried about the overall trend.
>
> I feel fairly certain, also, that many other incredibly fucking sketchy
> things are happening that no one is telling about, because they feel like
> it will be annoying on the list, will make NB look bad, or whatever. Even
> because the witnesses to it don't email or read the list. That sort of
> thing means that I can't trust or judge whether it is safe or not. Because
> I can't trust that bad behavior will be responded to, much less reported.
> I used to give out Noisebridge keys to other women with pride and
> happiness. Lately I still give them out but with a lot of apologies,
> warnings, explanations, and some sadness.  I hope that can change.
>
>
> - liz
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Jake <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
>
>> I am starting to realize that this is the same person who actually set up
>> a tent in Church classroom.  Like actually put up a tent.
>>
>> He had been writing music in puredata at his little home in the
>> SEM/science room since then.  He says the sharps container (with a few
>> needles in it) that's sitting on the SEM (scanning electron microscope) is
>> not his and it was already there.
>>
>> He was pretty drunk by the end of the meetings on tuesday.
>>
>> I gave him a door code before i realized any of this.  I have commented
>> out his code.
>>
>> I would like to hear more about what else he did before being asked to
>> leave.  I can't say i'm surprised at all.
>>
>> -jake
>>
>>
>> Curtis Gagliardi wrote:
>> What happened?  He seemed like a decent guy when I met him.
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 12:44 PM, jarrod hicks <hicksu at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>  Wade has been asked to leave the space by Dan and return to a meeting.
>>> He has left and may return to the meeting.
>>>
>>> Wade just recently started coming to the space and even attended the
>>> most recent Tuesday meeting. He has brown hair stands about 5'6" and
>>> has been mostly wearing a bright yellow shirt. He has been working on
>>> a Pirate Radio station in the DJ booth east of church.
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.**noisebridge.net<Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/**mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-**discuss<https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss>
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
> Liz Henry
> lhenry at mozilla.com
> lizhenry at gmail.com
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Johny Radio <johnyradio at gmail.com>
> To: Noisebridge-discuss <Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
> Cc:
> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 16:24:24 -0700
> Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] Wade
>  Wade is a real hacker. He's a programmer, and he makes stuff with
> hardware.
>
> He assisted the Noise Hack, by typing all the attendee's names into a
> spreadsheet for me.
> Wade gave me a puredata lesson, which is a software similar to max/msp,
> for designing sound.
>
> I can also say that, after spending many hours with him, Wade seems a very
> good-hearted, benevolent, generous, honest, non-threatening, respectful,
> giving person. And very smart.
>
> He's also a young guy, who in some ways acts like a young guy. He's
> exuberant, full of energy and sound, he likes to get drunk, he's a flirt.
> He's still trying to figure out his future. Sometimes he bugs you when
> you're trying to get work done. He was deeply apologetic when I asked him
> not to bug me.
>
> I have no reason to think he is involved in any hardcore drugs.
>
> Let's cultivate this person, who has lots of potential. Give him an
> orientation. Give him a chance. Wade is, in my view, exactly the kind of
> person noisebridge exists to cultivate. Let's not overreact.
>
> --
>
> Johny Radio
> Stick It In Your Ear!
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Jeffrey Carl Faden <jeffreyatw at gmail.com>
> To: Johny Radio <johnyradio at gmail.com>
> Cc: Noisebridge-discuss <Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 16:26:15 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Wade
> Please bring these thoughts to the next meeting he plans to come to.
>
> Jeffrey
>
> On Jun 20, 2013, at 4:24 PM, Johny Radio <johnyradio at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Wade is a real hacker. He's a programmer, and he makes stuff with
> hardware.
>
> He assisted the Noise Hack, by typing all the attendee's names into a
> spreadsheet for me.
> Wade gave me a puredata lesson, which is a software similar to max/msp,
> for designing sound.
>
> I can also say that, after spending many hours with him, Wade seems a very
> good-hearted, benevolent, generous, honest, non-threatening, respectful,
> giving person. And very smart.
>
> He's also a young guy, who in some ways acts like a young guy. He's
> exuberant, full of energy and sound, he likes to get drunk, he's a flirt.
> He's still trying to figure out his future. Sometimes he bugs you when
> you're trying to get work done. He was deeply apologetic when I asked him
> not to bug me.
>
> I have no reason to think he is involved in any hardcore drugs.
>
> Let's cultivate this person, who has lots of potential. Give him an
> orientation. Give him a chance. Wade is, in my view, exactly the kind of
> person noisebridge exists to cultivate. Let's not overreact.
>
> --
>
> Johny Radio
> Stick It In Your Ear!
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: LinkReincarnate <linkreincarnate at gmail.com>
> To: Leif Ryge <leif at synthesize.us>
> Cc: Davidfine <d at vidfine.com>, Mitchel McAllister <xonimmortal at yahoo.com>,
> Andy Isaacson <adi at hexapodia.org>, "
> noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net" <
> noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 16:28:29 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] [SPAM] Tattoos vs. behavior
> Comparing judgements based on a tattoo (which someone was not born with)
> with judgements based on a person's ancestry (which they were born with)
> is where your logic is failing, Link
>
>
> I guess I wasn't clear the first time I posted this but I have reworded it
> a bit for the sake of clarity.
>
> I was never blaming the victim or asking people to approach this person
> directly. The idea that the only option for a person in a group targeted by
> white supremacists are to leave or "get over it" and ask them about it is a
> false choice and never one that I put forward.   I was asking that we look
> into the situation to find a more optimal solution.
>
> Is a tattoo a choice? Yes but so is sagging your pants.  I hope you see
> that laws banning sagging pants are racist despite the fact that they are
> not based on ancestry.
>
> Is it normally reasonable to expect that a person with white
> power tattoos is a racist.  Sure it is.  That still doesn't make it true
> though.  It's the same as a bottle marked poison could be reasonably
> expected to contain poison but not unequivocally know to contain poison.
>
> Reasonable expectations are not the truth.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 3:53 PM, Leif Ryge <leif at synthesize.us> wrote:
>
>> Link,
>>
>> I was trying to avoid participating in this thread, as I felt like
>> enough reasonable people had already done so, but since you're repeating
>> the same faulty-logic faulty-logic here on the list again after I talked
>> to you in person about it I'm replying here now...
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 01:42:23PM -0700, LinkReincarnate wrote:
>> > I was saying (and won't apologize for because it's true) that their
>> > assumptions of another person's values based on their appearance were
>> > faulty and that racists fall to the same faulty logic.
>>
>> Comparing judgements based on a tattoo (which someone was not born with)
>> with judgements based on a person's ancestry (which they were born with)
>> is where your logic is failing, Link.
>>
>> I totally understand that some people have tattoos that they wish they
>> didn't have, and it sounds like that might be the case here. But, being
>> in public without covering it up is a choice that must be made on an
>> ongoing basis.
>>
>> People feeling uncomfortable around symbols that represent hate and
>> violence is hardly surprising. I don't think it is reasonable to expect
>> everyone at Noisebridge to either "not look at it if it bothers them"
>> (as Mik has said) or to go talk to the person with the frightening
>> tattoos to see if they actually hold the views they're broadcasting to
>> the world.
>>
>> Many people don't feel like having that conversation, and they shouldn't
>> need to just to feel safe while using Noisebridge.
>>
>> I'm willing to discuss this further offline, but am going to try to
>> refrain from posting any more on this list about it as I think enough
>> has been said here already.
>>
>> ~leif
>>
>
>
>
> --
> www.linkreincarnate.com
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Jake <jake at spaz.org>
> To: Liz Henry <lizhenry at gmail.com>
> Cc: "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net" <
> noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 16:28:33 -0700 (PDT)
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Wade asked to leave
> I think that this cultural downturn has something to do with the door
> policy being set to "promiscuous" mode.
>
> after asking at at least one meeting, and soliciting opinions on the
> mailing list, I did not hear of any objections to putting a code keypad at
> the top of the stairs, in replacement of the DOOR button.  This would make
> it so that one could not buzz open the door from upstairs without a code.
>
> Nobody objected, so i built the keypad and got it working.  Then someone
> else who thought this would be a good idea disabled the original DOOR
> button.  At that point the only way to get the door open from upstairs was
> by entering a code on that keypad, or from one's phone or laptop.
>
> This went on for a month or so, and then wiretapped and MCT decided to
> undo it, by changing the upstairs keypad to "promiscuous" mode so that any
> key will buzz the door open.  And that's how it is now.
>
> That means that anyone, whoever they are, can ring the doorbell and
> anyone, whoever they are, if they are upstairs, can go and press a button
> and let them in.
>
> Is it hard to see how this open-door policy fills noisebridge with the
> lowest common denominator?
>
> If you want to go back to the good old days when people could only buzz
> people in if they have a code, remove the --promiscuous parameter from the
> instance of baron.py that serves the upstairs keypad.  This is on minotaur.
>
> -jake
>
> On Thu, 20 Jun 2013, Liz Henry wrote:
>
>  I am glad Wade was asked to leave, but it is behavior like this that
>> happened for who knows how long before he was asked to leave, that makes me
>> now reluctant to recommend
>> Noisebridge to new people.
>>
>> My concern is mainly that the cultural norms of Noisebridge have shifted
>> too far over to the side of tolerating this and similar behavior, to the
>> extent that more and more
>> people who behave in more considerate ways are avoiding the space.
>>
>> The few times I have been coming round this month during the day time
>> everythnig was quiet and nice, relatively clean even, and people were
>> working on things and acting
>> respectful of each other.  At night it felt different, not good or safe.
>> And the early morning was like people sponge bathing in the washroom and
>> sleeping off hangovers, not a
>> good vibe at all.   While I know there are good things happening and lots
>> of people are working to fix the culture in general and people's
>> expectations of how they can behave I
>> am feeling  worried about the overall trend.
>>
>> I feel fairly certain, also, that many other incredibly fucking sketchy
>> things are happening that no one is telling about, because they feel like
>> it will be annoying on the
>> list, will make NB look bad, or whatever. Even because the witnesses to
>> it don't email or read the list. That sort of thing means that I can't
>> trust or judge whether it is safe
>> or not. Because I can't trust that bad behavior will be responded to,
>> much less reported.  I used to give out Noisebridge keys to other women
>> with pride and happiness. Lately I
>> still give them out but with a lot of apologies, warnings, explanations,
>> and some sadness.  I hope that can change.
>>
>>
>> - liz
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Jake <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
>>       I am starting to realize that this is the same person who actually
>> set up a tent in Church classroom.  Like actually put up a tent.
>>
>>       He had been writing music in puredata at his little home in the
>> SEM/science room since then.  He says the sharps container (with a few
>> needles in it) that's sitting
>>       on the SEM (scanning electron microscope) is not his and it was
>> already there.
>>
>>       He was pretty drunk by the end of the meetings on tuesday.
>>
>>       I gave him a door code before i realized any of this.  I have
>> commented out his code.
>>
>>       I would like to hear more about what else he did before being asked
>> to leave.  I can't say i'm surprised at all.
>>
>>       -jake
>>
>>       Curtis Gagliardi wrote:
>>       What happened?  He seemed like a decent guy when I met him.
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 12:44 PM, jarrod hicks <hicksu at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>       Wade has been asked to leave the space by Dan and return to a
>> meeting.
>>       He has left and may return to the meeting.
>>
>>       Wade just recently started coming to the space and even attended the
>>       most recent Tuesday meeting. He has brown hair stands about 5'6" and
>>       has been mostly wearing a bright yellow shirt. He has been working
>> on
>>       a Pirate Radio station in the DJ booth east of church.
>>
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.**noisebridge.net<Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/**mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-**discuss<https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
>> Liz Henry
>> lhenry at mozilla.com
>> lizhenry at gmail.com
>>
>>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Danny O'Brien" <danny at spesh.com>
> To: LinkReincarnate <linkreincarnate at gmail.com>
> Cc: "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net" <
> noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
> Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 06:31:30 +0700
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] [SPAM] Tattoos vs. behavior
> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 6:07 AM, LinkReincarnate <
> linkreincarnate at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>  Danny O'B<https://twitter.com/i/redirect?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fmala%3Frefsrc%3Demail&sig=39af58639918602993cea141f8d34334018239b9&uid=47286619&iid=62c9380d-cbb7-4bf0-9c43-d195c8924fa8&nid=42+413+20130611&t=1>
>>  @mala FOLLOWS YOU<https://twitter.com/i/redirect?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fmala%3Frefsrc%3Demail&sig=39af58639918602993cea141f8d34334018239b9&uid=47286619&iid=62c9380d-cbb7-4bf0-9c43-d195c8924fa8&nid=42+412+20130611&t=1> they
>> stole our revolution. we stole it back. they hired us to work on... Followed
>> by Gina Trapani<https://twitter.com/i/redirect?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fginatrapani%3Frefsrc%3Demail&sig=2f3086dd2b91b3fec7938dd1a9f3d0ad19002be5&uid=47286619&iid=62c9380d-cbb7-4bf0-9c43-d195c8924fa8&nid=42+425+20130611&t=1>
>>  and 3 others<https://twitter.com/i/redirect?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fmala%2Ffollowers_you_follow%3Frefsrc%3Demail&sig=46211003aed1035a69e8da821ba125d1229f44fd&uid=47286619&iid=62c9380d-cbb7-4bf0-9c43-d195c8924fa8&nid=42+417+20130611&t=1>
>> .
>> Following: 1021<https://twitter.com/i/redirect?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fmala%2Ffollowing%3Frefsrc%3Demail&sig=f6ae56192696e8c6c389052a1980b433090e7e52&uid=47286619&iid=62c9380d-cbb7-4bf0-9c43-d195c8924fa8&nid=42+416+20130611&t=1> ·
>> Followers: 3722<https://twitter.com/i/redirect?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fmala%2Ffollowers%3Frefsrc%3Demail&sig=869014eac2e02faeeb3340c2e9c7f194d90dd188&uid=47286619&iid=62c9380d-cbb7-4bf0-9c43-d195c8924fa8&nid=42+415+20130611&t=1>
>>
>> Danny you must have someone impersonating you then because twitter says
>> you do follow me.  I can forward the actual email from twitter to you if
>> that is disconcerting to find.  If that was an invalid assumption and there
>> is another explanation for the message twitter sent me then I do apologize
>> and take back all of my criticism re mob rule , ends justifying the means,
>> cabals and neckbeardedness. I hope you see why I would be a little paranoid
>> after a call to find out my identity (as I interpreted it) followed by
>> being followed by you on twitter.  For the record I am Justin.  I have no
>> problem with people knowing who I am in the space and being able to
>> associate my screenname with my face.
>>
>>
> Sorry, you're right -- I've followed you for months on Twitter (if you
> look here https://twitter.com/mala/following you can see how far back it
> was  -- I think it must have been in February). I just haven't like
> instantly followed you recently. I always know your name because I read
> this in Gmail, and a little icon to the right of this email shows a little
> picture of you and your Google Plus real name. I really don't know what you
> mean about a call to find out your identity.
>
> I'm not trying to muddy the waters with this any further, but is it at all
> possible you're confusing me with another neckbearded fuck?
>
> d.
>
>
>  Macegr I probably have gone overboard in a lot of this discussion but
>> that is because racism is a real problem that happens to be a hot button
>> issue for me.  I have lived under it and I really do  care about seeing an
>> end to racism  but you have a point. I am getting way too hot under the
>> collar.
>>
>
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 3:27 PM, Adrian Chadd <adrian.chadd at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> On 20 June 2013 14:49, Davidfine <d at vidfine.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > If Robby refuses the offer, I'd like to hear about that as well. That
>>> would
>>> > say to me that he is in fact a member of a white supremacist group,
>>> and not
>>> > a good match for the community we're building.
>>> > Be excellent,
>>> > --D
>>>
>>> That's one way to interpret that.
>>>
>>> Another way is "damnit, I may not like it, but I don't want to go
>>> through this crap again, leave me alone."
>>>
>>> Jumping to /that/ particular conclusion because he decides he doesn't
>>> want to cover the tattoo up is just as silly as assuming throwing
>>> money at the problem will fix things. :-)
>>>
>>> 2c,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Adrian
>>> (I'm trying not to troll, honest. But damn.)
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> www.linkreincarnate.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: LinkReincarnate <linkreincarnate at gmail.com>
> To: "Danny O'Brien" <danny at spesh.com>
> Cc: "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net" <
> noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 16:42:16 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] [SPAM] Tattoos vs. behavior
> OK it seems that twitter just picked a really bad time to ask me if I know
> you.  It seems that I misinterpreted "Makes you wonder who the fuck *are*
> these people, anyway?" as a plausibly denaible call to hacktivism.
>
> So Officially I am sorry.  I seem to have jumped the gun acted on some
> unfounded assumptions myself.
>
> wait, Danny didn't actually follow me on Twitter, perhaps he has not
> turned into sociopath who is hacking me up my bad.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 4:31 PM, Danny O'Brien <danny at spesh.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 6:07 AM, LinkReincarnate <
>> linkreincarnate at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>  Danny O'B<https://twitter.com/i/redirect?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fmala%3Frefsrc%3Demail&sig=39af58639918602993cea141f8d34334018239b9&uid=47286619&iid=62c9380d-cbb7-4bf0-9c43-d195c8924fa8&nid=42+413+20130611&t=1>
>>>  @mala FOLLOWS YOU<https://twitter.com/i/redirect?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fmala%3Frefsrc%3Demail&sig=39af58639918602993cea141f8d34334018239b9&uid=47286619&iid=62c9380d-cbb7-4bf0-9c43-d195c8924fa8&nid=42+412+20130611&t=1> they
>>> stole our revolution. we stole it back. they hired us to work on... Followed
>>> by Gina Trapani<https://twitter.com/i/redirect?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fginatrapani%3Frefsrc%3Demail&sig=2f3086dd2b91b3fec7938dd1a9f3d0ad19002be5&uid=47286619&iid=62c9380d-cbb7-4bf0-9c43-d195c8924fa8&nid=42+425+20130611&t=1>
>>>  and 3 others<https://twitter.com/i/redirect?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fmala%2Ffollowers_you_follow%3Frefsrc%3Demail&sig=46211003aed1035a69e8da821ba125d1229f44fd&uid=47286619&iid=62c9380d-cbb7-4bf0-9c43-d195c8924fa8&nid=42+417+20130611&t=1>
>>> .
>>> Following: 1021<https://twitter.com/i/redirect?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fmala%2Ffollowing%3Frefsrc%3Demail&sig=f6ae56192696e8c6c389052a1980b433090e7e52&uid=47286619&iid=62c9380d-cbb7-4bf0-9c43-d195c8924fa8&nid=42+416+20130611&t=1> ·
>>> Followers: 3722<https://twitter.com/i/redirect?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fmala%2Ffollowers%3Frefsrc%3Demail&sig=869014eac2e02faeeb3340c2e9c7f194d90dd188&uid=47286619&iid=62c9380d-cbb7-4bf0-9c43-d195c8924fa8&nid=42+415+20130611&t=1>
>>>
>>> Danny you must have someone impersonating you then because twitter says
>>> you do follow me.  I can forward the actual email from twitter to you if
>>> that is disconcerting to find.  If that was an invalid assumption and there
>>> is another explanation for the message twitter sent me then I do apologize
>>> and take back all of my criticism re mob rule , ends justifying the means,
>>> cabals and neckbeardedness. I hope you see why I would be a little paranoid
>>> after a call to find out my identity (as I interpreted it) followed by
>>> being followed by you on twitter.  For the record I am Justin.  I have no
>>> problem with people knowing who I am in the space and being able to
>>> associate my screenname with my face.
>>>
>>>
>> Sorry, you're right -- I've followed you for months on Twitter (if you
>> look here https://twitter.com/mala/following you can see how far back it
>> was  -- I think it must have been in February). I just haven't like
>> instantly followed you recently. I always know your name because I read
>> this in Gmail, and a little icon to the right of this email shows a little
>> picture of you and your Google Plus real name. I really don't know what you
>> mean about a call to find out your identity.
>>
>> I'm not trying to muddy the waters with this any further, but is it at
>> all possible you're confusing me with another neckbearded fuck?
>>
>> d.
>>
>>
>>   Macegr I probably have gone overboard in a lot of this discussion but
>>> that is because racism is a real problem that happens to be a hot button
>>> issue for me.  I have lived under it and I really do  care about seeing an
>>> end to racism  but you have a point. I am getting way too hot under the
>>> collar.
>>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 3:27 PM, Adrian Chadd <adrian.chadd at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> On 20 June 2013 14:49, Davidfine <d at vidfine.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > If Robby refuses the offer, I'd like to hear about that as well. That
>>>> would
>>>> > say to me that he is in fact a member of a white supremacist group,
>>>> and not
>>>> > a good match for the community we're building.
>>>> > Be excellent,
>>>> > --D
>>>>
>>>> That's one way to interpret that.
>>>>
>>>> Another way is "damnit, I may not like it, but I don't want to go
>>>> through this crap again, leave me alone."
>>>>
>>>> Jumping to /that/ particular conclusion because he decides he doesn't
>>>> want to cover the tattoo up is just as silly as assuming throwing
>>>> money at the problem will fix things. :-)
>>>>
>>>> 2c,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Adrian
>>>> (I'm trying not to troll, honest. But damn.)
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> www.linkreincarnate.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> www.linkreincarnate.com
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Bill Gag <billgag11 at yahoo.com>
> To: "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net" <
> noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
> Cc:
> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 16:47:45 -0700 (PDT)
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] It has come to my attention that...
> The fact that this discussion has gone from Dru's behavior to more people
> bitching about their stupid science lab being used as a resource by
> homeless people is disgusting, Dru's behavior is terrible even if the space
> was a fucking office.
>
> The fact that every discussion has to be used to define the space is
> irritating enough but this discussion is no place for that shit, get the
> fuck out of here and be safe at home.
>
> The fact is, that making the space exclusive or anything of that sort
> would NOT solve this problem, the presence of predatory men and people
> there to defend them is, and no matter how you view the space, this needs
> to be dealt with, because as long as humans use noisebridge there will be
> this sorta shit.
>
> Because its not a safe space. Its a hostile one, only safe for white men
> with houses or jobs. Until that changes, this shit will continue. The
> argument over the use of the space is merely an extension of this shit
> behavior.
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Liz Henry <lizhenry at gmail.com>
> To: Leif Ryge <leif at synthesize.us>
> Cc: NoiseBridge Discuss <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 16:54:45 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] asked james to leave
> Thanks for asking him to leave, Leif, and also thanks for letting the list
> know about it!
>
> - liz
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 8:27 PM, Leif Ryge <leif at synthesize.us> wrote:
>
>> This afternoon I asked an older man named James to leave Noisebridge.
>>
>> This is loud obnoxious James who used to wear a cowboy hat and be around
>> frequently. Today was the first time I've seen him in several months; I
>> heard he has been in southen california.
>>
>> Based on conversations I've had with him and with people who know him
>> better than I do, I believe he harasses women on the street and responds
>> poorly to suggestions that he should stop doing that.
>>
>> I told him that I would prefer that he *not* return to the weekly
>> meeting, but that if he wants to see if the rest of the community agrees
>> with my assessment that he should not be at Noisebridge he could attend.
>> He said he will stay away until the meeting and will come to "stand
>> trial".
>>
>> I think James epitomizes the truism that by including some people we are
>> actually exlcuding others. I hope we don't need to spend too much time
>> discussing him at the meeting.
>>
>> ~leif
>>
>> ps: Thank you to the 3 people who agreed to join me in having this
>> difficult conversation!
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
> Liz Henry
> lhenry at mozilla.com
> lizhenry at gmail.com
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com>
> To: Ben Kochie <ben at nerp.net>
> Cc: rack at lists.noisebridge.net, Johny Radio <johnyradio at gmail.com>,
> Noisebridge-discuss <Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>, Andy
> Isaacson <adi at hexapodia.org>
> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 17:05:36 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] [Rack] File Host?
> I meant see what is using 2tb of space and cleaning it up a bit, if
> possible.
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Ben Kochie <ben at nerp.net> wrote:
>
>> I'd love to, anyone want to help me buy some new hard drives?  The ones
>> that are in there are craptastic.
>>
>> -ben
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 20 Jun 2013, Andy Isaacson wrote:
>>
>>  It looks like pony.noisebridge.net has 200 GB of space free, so that's
>>> not very large.  It should be possible to add a larger /data partition
>>> as the current 2TB /data is completely full.
>>>
>>> Pony would be a pretty good match to what you're looking for.
>>>
>>> -andy
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 02:05:49PM -0700, Johny Radio wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6/20/2013 1:49 PM, Alex Buie wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We'd love to host them. Feel free to shoot me an email at
>>>>> abuie at archive.org <mailto:abuie at archive.org> if you need any help
>>>>> getting them up.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, Alex!
>>>>
>>>> But, I'm wondering if local NB hosting is preferable, since I want
>>>> to post the raw, huge video files, so others can download and edit
>>>> them.
>>>>
>>>> Video playback is not needed at this stage. The upload time would
>>>> take forever, to archive.org, on my slow connection.
>>>>
>>>> We would use archive.org, youtube, etc to host the final edited files
>>>>
>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Johny Radio
>>>>
>>>> Stick It In Your Ear!
>>>>
>>>
>>>  ______________________________**_________________
>>>> Rack mailing list
>>>> Rack at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/**mailman/listinfo/rack<https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/rack>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> Rack mailing list
>>> Rack at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/**mailman/listinfo/rack<https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/rack>
>>>
>>>  ______________________________**_________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.**noisebridge.net<Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/**mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-**discuss<https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Ronald Cotoni
> Systems Engineer
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Danny O'Brien" <danny at spesh.com>
> To: Bill Gag <billgag11 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net" <
> noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
> Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 07:55:34 +0700
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] It has come to my attention that...
> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 6:47 AM, Bill Gag <billgag11 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> The fact that this discussion has gone from Dru's behavior to more people
>> bitching about their stupid science lab being used as a resource by
>> homeless people is disgusting, Dru's behavior is terrible even if the space
>> was a fucking office.
>>
>> The fact that every discussion has to be used to define the space is
>> irritating enough but this discussion is no place for that shit, get the
>> fuck out of here and be safe at home.
>>
>
> Hey Kim,
>
> You're right that it's important to make the stupid science lab safe for
> everyone. But, speaking personally, I can't do that *and* make it as a
> resource for homeless people or people who are just generally hanging out.
> It's too much. It takes a lot of time and energy to deal with the normal
> traumatastic drama that emerges from dealing with all the problems that
> hacker culture has, *and* deal with people who are trying to deal with a
> bunch of other societal issues, like poverty, homelessness and mental
> illness, *plus* the people who prey on open spaces and open communities in
> general.
>
> It's a stupid science lab, but that's all it is meant to be. We had a
> science lab experiment trying to make it welcoming by just being open all
> the time so that anyone could come in at any time, but in the end that just
> end up excluding whole classes of people (including a lot of whiteboy
> hackers, but also hackers of every other kind), and constructing an
> atmosphere of entitlement with a bunch of people who aren't doing the stuff
> that the place is designed to encourage.
>
> I'm burned out, because the place needs smart, enthusiastic, vaguely sane
> people to help things run smoothly, and a great deal of my time is
> dominated by the consequences of people who clutch hold of it for other
> reasons than it was designed for, and need to, frankly, sort their shit out
> somewhere else.
>
> You've only just subscribe to nb-discuss, Kim, but you know that I've
> invested a lot of time social sysadminning trying to sort out problems
> among people and mediate solutions. I don't really often go off on one like
> this. But really, I have to draw the line somewhere.
>
> So here's one the new lines I'm drawing for myself. If you think that this
> is a "stupid science lab", please leave.  Anyone who seriously says that
> for a moment is not welcome by me, anymore. You should go. There are other
> places you can go, less full of horrible science geeks. There are other
> places you can build yourself, that might be more welcoming.
>
> We have a lot of problems, and we can't solve them all, and right now, we
> can't solve yours, particularly when you're actively scorning the very
> reason we wanted to share our space with you.
>
> I'm sorry. Please go.
>
> d.
>
>
>
>>
>> The fact is, that making the space exclusive or anything of that sort
>> would NOT solve this problem, the presence of predatory men and people
>> there to defend them is, and no matter how you view the space, this needs
>> to be dealt with, because as long as humans use noisebridge there will be
>> this sorta shit.
>>
>> Because its not a safe space. Its a hostile one, only safe for white men
>> with houses or jobs. Until that changes, this shit will continue. The
>> argument over the use of the space is merely an extension of this shit
>> behavior.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Danny O'Brien" <danny at spesh.com>
> To: Bill Gag <billgag11 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net" <
> noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
> Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 08:10:44 +0700
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] It has come to my attention that...
> Oh, and I should probably say despite my ranting and despite the serious
> tone of this email, I can almost certainly be persuaded back from my
> descent into Stalinism and back to joyous acceptance of all Noisebridge's
> craziness, in all its forms. I'm pretty sure it would be really easy.
>
> d.
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 7:55 AM, Danny O'Brien <danny at spesh.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 6:47 AM, Bill Gag <billgag11 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The fact that this discussion has gone from Dru's behavior to more
>>> people bitching about their stupid science lab being used as a resource by
>>> homeless people is disgusting, Dru's behavior is terrible even if the space
>>> was a fucking office.
>>>
>>> The fact that every discussion has to be used to define the space is
>>> irritating enough but this discussion is no place for that shit, get the
>>> fuck out of here and be safe at home.
>>>
>>
>> Hey Kim,
>>
>> You're right that it's important to make the stupid science lab safe for
>> everyone. But, speaking personally, I can't do that *and* make it as a
>> resource for homeless people or people who are just generally hanging out.
>> It's too much. It takes a lot of time and energy to deal with the normal
>> traumatastic drama that emerges from dealing with all the problems that
>> hacker culture has, *and* deal with people who are trying to deal with a
>> bunch of other societal issues, like poverty, homelessness and mental
>> illness, *plus* the people who prey on open spaces and open communities in
>> general.
>>
>> It's a stupid science lab, but that's all it is meant to be. We had a
>> science lab experiment trying to make it welcoming by just being open all
>> the time so that anyone could come in at any time, but in the end that just
>> end up excluding whole classes of people (including a lot of whiteboy
>> hackers, but also hackers of every other kind), and constructing an
>> atmosphere of entitlement with a bunch of people who aren't doing the stuff
>> that the place is designed to encourage.
>>
>> I'm burned out, because the place needs smart, enthusiastic, vaguely sane
>> people to help things run smoothly, and a great deal of my time is
>> dominated by the consequences of people who clutch hold of it for other
>> reasons than it was designed for, and need to, frankly, sort their shit out
>> somewhere else.
>>
>> You've only just subscribe to nb-discuss, Kim, but you know that I've
>> invested a lot of time social sysadminning trying to sort out problems
>> among people and mediate solutions. I don't really often go off on one like
>> this. But really, I have to draw the line somewhere.
>>
>> So here's one the new lines I'm drawing for myself. If you think that
>> this is a "stupid science lab", please leave.  Anyone who seriously says
>> that for a moment is not welcome by me, anymore. You should go. There are
>> other places you can go, less full of horrible science geeks. There are
>> other places you can build yourself, that might be more welcoming.
>>
>> We have a lot of problems, and we can't solve them all, and right now, we
>> can't solve yours, particularly when you're actively scorning the very
>> reason we wanted to share our space with you.
>>
>> I'm sorry. Please go.
>>
>> d.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> The fact is, that making the space exclusive or anything of that sort
>>> would NOT solve this problem, the presence of predatory men and people
>>> there to defend them is, and no matter how you view the space, this needs
>>> to be dealt with, because as long as humans use noisebridge there will be
>>> this sorta shit.
>>>
>>> Because its not a safe space. Its a hostile one, only safe for white men
>>> with houses or jobs. Until that changes, this shit will continue. The
>>> argument over the use of the space is merely an extension of this shit
>>> behavior.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Ever Falling <everfalling at gmail.com>
> To: "Danny O'Brien" <danny at spesh.com>
> Cc: "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net" <
> noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>, Bill Gag <billgag11 at yahoo.com>
> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 18:16:10 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] It has come to my attention that...
> How about instead of getting butthurt that someone called NB a "stupid
> science lab" how about you address her actual complaint about sticking to
> the topic of an alleged sexual assault like one of those smart,
> enthusiastic, vaguely sane people you try to seek out?
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 6:10 PM, Danny O'Brien <danny at spesh.com> wrote:
>
>> Oh, and I should probably say despite my ranting and despite the serious
>> tone of this email, I can almost certainly be persuaded back from my
>> descent into Stalinism and back to joyous acceptance of all Noisebridge's
>> craziness, in all its forms. I'm pretty sure it would be really easy.
>>
>> d.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 7:55 AM, Danny O'Brien <danny at spesh.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 6:47 AM, Bill Gag <billgag11 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The fact that this discussion has gone from Dru's behavior to more
>>>> people bitching about their stupid science lab being used as a resource by
>>>> homeless people is disgusting, Dru's behavior is terrible even if the space
>>>> was a fucking office.
>>>>
>>>> The fact that every discussion has to be used to define the space is
>>>> irritating enough but this discussion is no place for that shit, get the
>>>> fuck out of here and be safe at home.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Hey Kim,
>>>
>>> You're right that it's important to make the stupid science lab safe for
>>> everyone. But, speaking personally, I can't do that *and* make it as a
>>> resource for homeless people or people who are just generally hanging out.
>>> It's too much. It takes a lot of time and energy to deal with the normal
>>> traumatastic drama that emerges from dealing with all the problems that
>>> hacker culture has, *and* deal with people who are trying to deal with a
>>> bunch of other societal issues, like poverty, homelessness and mental
>>> illness, *plus* the people who prey on open spaces and open communities in
>>> general.
>>>
>>> It's a stupid science lab, but that's all it is meant to be. We had a
>>> science lab experiment trying to make it welcoming by just being open all
>>> the time so that anyone could come in at any time, but in the end that just
>>> end up excluding whole classes of people (including a lot of whiteboy
>>> hackers, but also hackers of every other kind), and constructing an
>>> atmosphere of entitlement with a bunch of people who aren't doing the stuff
>>> that the place is designed to encourage.
>>>
>>> I'm burned out, because the place needs smart, enthusiastic, vaguely
>>> sane people to help things run smoothly, and a great deal of my time is
>>> dominated by the consequences of people who clutch hold of it for other
>>> reasons than it was designed for, and need to, frankly, sort their shit out
>>> somewhere else.
>>>
>>> You've only just subscribe to nb-discuss, Kim, but you know that I've
>>> invested a lot of time social sysadminning trying to sort out problems
>>> among people and mediate solutions. I don't really often go off on one like
>>> this. But really, I have to draw the line somewhere.
>>>
>>> So here's one the new lines I'm drawing for myself. If you think that
>>> this is a "stupid science lab", please leave.  Anyone who seriously says
>>> that for a moment is not welcome by me, anymore. You should go. There are
>>> other places you can go, less full of horrible science geeks. There are
>>> other places you can build yourself, that might be more welcoming.
>>>
>>> We have a lot of problems, and we can't solve them all, and right now,
>>> we can't solve yours, particularly when you're actively scorning the very
>>> reason we wanted to share our space with you.
>>>
>>> I'm sorry. Please go.
>>>
>>> d.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> The fact is, that making the space exclusive or anything of that sort
>>>> would NOT solve this problem, the presence of predatory men and people
>>>> there to defend them is, and no matter how you view the space, this needs
>>>> to be dealt with, because as long as humans use noisebridge there will be
>>>> this sorta shit.
>>>>
>>>> Because its not a safe space. Its a hostile one, only safe for white
>>>> men with houses or jobs. Until that changes, this shit will continue. The
>>>> argument over the use of the space is merely an extension of this shit
>>>> behavior.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: macegr <garrettmace at gmail.com>
> To: "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net Discuss" <
> noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
> Cc:
> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 18:18:50 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] It has come to my attention that...
>
> On Jun 20, 2013, at 5:55 PM, Danny O'Brien <danny at spesh.com> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 6:47 AM, Bill Gag <billgag11 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> The fact that this discussion has gone from Dru's behavior to more people
>> bitching about their stupid science lab being used as a resource by
>> homeless people is disgusting, Dru's behavior is terrible even if the space
>> was a fucking office.
>>
>> The fact that every discussion has to be used to define the space is
>> irritating enough but this discussion is no place for that shit, get the
>> fuck out of here and be safe at home.
>>
>
> Hey Kim,
>
> You're right that it's important to make the stupid science lab safe for
> everyone. But, speaking personally, I can't do that *and* make it as a
> resource for homeless people or people who are just generally hanging out.
> It's too much. It takes a lot of time and energy to deal with the normal
> traumatastic drama that emerges from dealing with all the problems that
> hacker culture has, *and* deal with people who are trying to deal with a
> bunch of other societal issues, like poverty, homelessness and mental
> illness, *plus* the people who prey on open spaces and open communities in
> general.
>
> It's a stupid science lab, but that's all it is meant to be. We had a
> science lab experiment trying to make it welcoming by just being open all
> the time so that anyone could come in at any time, but in the end that just
> end up excluding whole classes of people (including a lot of whiteboy
> hackers, but also hackers of every other kind), and constructing an
> atmosphere of entitlement with a bunch of people who aren't doing the stuff
> that the place is designed to encourage.
>
> I'm burned out, because the place needs smart, enthusiastic, vaguely sane
> people to help things run smoothly, and a great deal of my time is
> dominated by the consequences of people who clutch hold of it for other
> reasons than it was designed for, and need to, frankly, sort their shit out
> somewhere else.
>
> You've only just subscribe to nb-discuss, Kim, but you know that I've
> invested a lot of time social sysadminning trying to sort out problems
> among people and mediate solutions. I don't really often go off on one like
> this. But really, I have to draw the line somewhere.
>
> So here's one the new lines I'm drawing for myself. If you think that this
> is a "stupid science lab", please leave.  Anyone who seriously says that
> for a moment is not welcome by me, anymore. You should go. There are other
> places you can go, less full of horrible science geeks. There are other
> places you can build yourself, that might be more welcoming.
>
> We have a lot of problems, and we can't solve them all, and right now, we
> can't solve yours, particularly when you're actively scorning the very
> reason we wanted to share our space with you.
>
> I'm sorry. Please go.
>
> d.
>
>
> Keep this up, Danny, and I may actually start coming in. I know how to
> design a PCB, run ugly welds, bake a cake, operate power tools, stay up 36
> hours to make a useless crazy idea work, AND respect people's boundaries. I
> love the idea of working to make someplace awesomely weird, and safe for
> everyone to release their inner mad scientist without worrying about alley
> drama. But not while people working directly against that goal are
> tolerated.
>
> Make a space where people earn respect for what they actually DO, rather
> than who they are or how loudly they can talk, and the hackers will find
> you.
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Marquis <decimation1489 at yahoo.com>
> To: "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net" <
> noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
> Cc:
> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 18:43:32 -0700
> Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] Open space only for hackers?
> Hello, my name is Marquis. I'm new at Noisebridge. I come by mostly
> everyday to write screenplays. Some days I procrastinate and end up on
> Tumblr geeking out over Teen Wolf. I do use the kitchen to either get water
> or toast. I occasionally bring noodles to eat. I don't know some of the
> policy's but going by what is said in this discussion  list,doing that
> seems to be unacceptable unless your a hacker. Maybe I'm misunderstanding
> what exactly is being said. I don't want to make members and other people
> in the space feel uncomfortable because they believe I'm abusing the space
> and using it as a substitute housing area.
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Ever Falling <everfalling at gmail.com>
> To: Marquis <decimation1489 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net" <
> noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 18:50:52 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Open space only for hackers?
> Woe unto you if you take a nap.
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 6:43 PM, Marquis <decimation1489 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello, my name is Marquis. I'm new at Noisebridge. I come by mostly
>> everyday to write screenplays. Some days I procrastinate and end up on
>> Tumblr geeking out over Teen Wolf. I do use the kitchen to either get water
>> or toast. I occasionally bring noodles to eat. I don't know some of the
>> policy's but going by what is said in this discussion  list,doing that
>> seems to be unacceptable unless your a hacker. Maybe I'm misunderstanding
>> what exactly is being said. I don't want to make members and other people
>> in the space feel uncomfortable because they believe I'm abusing the space
>> and using it as a substitute housing area.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Daniel Kelly <arrays.tostring at gmail.com>
> To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> Cc:
> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 19:09:10 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Open space only for hackers?
> If you don't live in the space, you'll be fine.
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 6:43 PM, Marquis <decimation1489 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello, my name is Marquis. I'm new at Noisebridge. I come by mostly
>> everyday to write screenplays. Some days I procrastinate and end up on
>> Tumblr geeking out over Teen Wolf. I do use the kitchen to either get water
>> or toast. I occasionally bring noodles to eat. I don't know some of the
>> policy's but going by what is said in this discussion  list,doing that
>> seems to be unacceptable unless your a hacker. Maybe I'm misunderstanding
>> what exactly is being said. I don't want to make members and other people
>> in the space feel uncomfortable because they believe I'm abusing the space
>> and using it as a substitute housing area.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Danny O'Brien" <danny at spesh.com>
> To: Ever Falling <everfalling at gmail.com>
> Cc: "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net" <
> noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
> Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 09:09:12 +0700
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] [drama] the one where Danny flames out
> spectacularly
> Ever Falling,
>
> As delightful as ever.
>
> 1)  Mea culpa. I have changed the subject line.
>
> 2) If your question is more accurately, "is anyone going to deal with the
> serious issue", yes, they will. However, they won't do it on a mailing
> list, because that is the DUMBEST PLACE IN THE WORLD to try and solve a
> problem like this. You think that the thread ends with Dru going "cor
> blimey, it's a fair cop, guv" and going meekly somewhere else in an
> attachment, or people sending CSI recreations of the scene in Autocad? No
> of course not, people actually sort this stuff out by sorting out in real
> life. Then other people will freak out at the people doing the sorting out
> and accuse them of a kangaroo court or mob justice or something. Look,
> already in this thread, I'm sure one person is accusing me of caring more
> about Noisebridge than a serious assault, and the other person thinks I'm
> part of a feminazi conspiracy to silence him on bugzilla. On Planet
> NotCrazyPants, we'd just sitting gasping politely at how much Bre just made
> or something. Here, no-one is being nice or sane at all, and I include me,
> because I am temporarily indulging my entirely rare craving to MIX IT UP.
> Which brings me to my next question:
>
> 3) Ever Falling, what do you do in the space? When did you last come here?
> What is it you are working on again?
>
> d.
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 8:16 AM, Ever Falling <everfalling at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> How about instead of getting butthurt that someone called NB a "stupid
>> science lab" how about you address her actual complaint about sticking to
>> the topic of an alleged sexual assault like one of those smart,
>> enthusiastic, vaguely sane people you try to seek out?
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 6:10 PM, Danny O'Brien <danny at spesh.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Oh, and I should probably say despite my ranting and despite the serious
>>> tone of this email, I can almost certainly be persuaded back from my
>>> descent into Stalinism and back to joyous acceptance of all Noisebridge's
>>> craziness, in all its forms. I'm pretty sure it would be really easy.
>>>
>>> d.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 7:55 AM, Danny O'Brien <danny at spesh.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 6:47 AM, Bill Gag <billgag11 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The fact that this discussion has gone from Dru's behavior to more
>>>>> people bitching about their stupid science lab being used as a resource by
>>>>> homeless people is disgusting, Dru's behavior is terrible even if the space
>>>>> was a fucking office.
>>>>>
>>>>> The fact that every discussion has to be used to define the space is
>>>>> irritating enough but this discussion is no place for that shit, get the
>>>>> fuck out of here and be safe at home.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hey Kim,
>>>>
>>>> You're right that it's important to make the stupid science lab safe
>>>> for everyone. But, speaking personally, I can't do that *and* make it as a
>>>> resource for homeless people or people who are just generally hanging out.
>>>> It's too much. It takes a lot of time and energy to deal with the normal
>>>> traumatastic drama that emerges from dealing with all the problems that
>>>> hacker culture has, *and* deal with people who are trying to deal with a
>>>> bunch of other societal issues, like poverty, homelessness and mental
>>>> illness, *plus* the people who prey on open spaces and open communities in
>>>> general.
>>>>
>>>> It's a stupid science lab, but that's all it is meant to be. We had a
>>>> science lab experiment trying to make it welcoming by just being open all
>>>> the time so that anyone could come in at any time, but in the end that just
>>>> end up excluding whole classes of people (including a lot of whiteboy
>>>> hackers, but also hackers of every other kind), and constructing an
>>>> atmosphere of entitlement with a bunch of people who aren't doing the stuff
>>>> that the place is designed to encourage.
>>>>
>>>> I'm burned out, because the place needs smart, enthusiastic, vaguely
>>>> sane people to help things run smoothly, and a great deal of my time is
>>>> dominated by the consequences of people who clutch hold of it for other
>>>> reasons than it was designed for, and need to, frankly, sort their shit out
>>>> somewhere else.
>>>>
>>>> You've only just subscribe to nb-discuss, Kim, but you know that I've
>>>> invested a lot of time social sysadminning trying to sort out problems
>>>> among people and mediate solutions. I don't really often go off on one like
>>>> this. But really, I have to draw the line somewhere.
>>>>
>>>> So here's one the new lines I'm drawing for myself. If you think that
>>>> this is a "stupid science lab", please leave.  Anyone who seriously says
>>>> that for a moment is not welcome by me, anymore. You should go. There are
>>>> other places you can go, less full of horrible science geeks. There are
>>>> other places you can build yourself, that might be more welcoming.
>>>>
>>>> We have a lot of problems, and we can't solve them all, and right now,
>>>> we can't solve yours, particularly when you're actively scorning the very
>>>> reason we wanted to share our space with you.
>>>>
>>>> I'm sorry. Please go.
>>>>
>>>> d.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The fact is, that making the space exclusive or anything of that sort
>>>>> would NOT solve this problem, the presence of predatory men and people
>>>>> there to defend them is, and no matter how you view the space, this needs
>>>>> to be dealt with, because as long as humans use noisebridge there will be
>>>>> this sorta shit.
>>>>>
>>>>> Because its not a safe space. Its a hostile one, only safe for white
>>>>> men with houses or jobs. Until that changes, this shit will continue. The
>>>>> argument over the use of the space is merely an extension of this shit
>>>>> behavior.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> ...
>
> [Message clipped]
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