[Noisebridge-discuss] It has come to my attention that...

Liz Henry lizhenry at gmail.com
Sun Jun 23 16:15:59 UTC 2013

Hey there.  I had offered to bring up the accusations against Dru at a
meeting and to talk with him about his perception of what had happened.   I
asked Dru not to contact Dante and not to do any sort of
massage/medical/energy work in the space.  Then, I missed some meetings,
then I brought it up at a meeting but it was at the end of a long difficult
meeting. then I got the flu and then went out of town for a week during
which Carl stepped up to say he would try to move the issue forward at a
meeting.  I hoped that at the least, bringing it up at the meeting would
let people know there is an issue, they should use caution, and their own
judgment about it in the meantime.

>From talking with Dru and from various email exchanges I I did not feel
that he had understood some of the ways that he disrespects interpersonal
boundaries.   While he would agree with my statements on the surface, he
continued to sexualise Dante and Lilian, to bring up things they did, said,
or that he feels they "are" in ways that directly contradict Dante and
LIlian's statements, and to explain his own sexuality to me and his
attractions to other people. He wants to frame his interactions with them
as them being confused about their own sexuality, and as immature for not
understanding themselves.  And from Dru's point of view Dante and Lillian
are "trolling".

The other pattern that emerged on communication was that when a boundary is
set, Dru will immediately go over it,  and then gaslight the
boundary-setter. In this case, then the people who have asserted their
boundaries get angry. Their angry responses are then used by Dru as
evidence that they are irrational. That is a horrible communication pattern.

I am NOT saying that therefore, Dru is a rapist!  I am saying that
therefore, Dru is very difficult to communicate with and it is hard to
extend any social trust to him .  I am sorry that sounds complicated.

I can't agree with Dru's responses in any way.  His responses were weird
and perturbing. I didn't want to publish them to the list because they had
so many more attacks on Dante and Lilian and others that it didn't seem
quite right.   Personally  I do not want to engage any further with Dru. I
don't trust him, and I would be quite happy to ask him not to come back to

One of the email exchanges that shows this pattern is included below as an

Now, I would like to also say that my attempt to give a layer of privacy to
the several people who complained,  backfired and the first time I wasn't
able to go to a meeting to bring this up, I should have found a responsible
person to do it.  So a bunch of the delay is my fault. I am sorry about

- Liz


Forwarded conversation

Subject: Last minute salon invite


From: Andrew Byrne <andrew at pachakutech.com>

Date: Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 1:03 PM

To: Dante Cassius <exaltedunmelody at gmail.com>

A client of mine is hosting a Salon. There is talking, art, drinking,
eating, philosophizing && The title 'digital femininity' made me think of

It is tonight, Wednesday the 24th in the mission.


From: Dante Cassius <exaltedunmelody at gmail.com>

Date: Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 1:06 PM

To: Andrew Byrne <andrew at pachakutech.com>

 I'm going to be honest dude, the fact that you keep referring to me as
feminine on multiple occasions especially combined with the way you were
touching me during energy work at noisebridge is making me extremely


From: Andrew Byrne <andrew at pachakutech.com>

Date: Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 5:08 AM

To: Dante Cassius <exaltedunmelody at gmail.com>

Aiight dude, just because you publicly identify as fem doesn't mean that's
how I should regard you. Fair. Fair. I'm actually into giving rope to the
willing, so  you can say you are a pineapple, and I'd still think the same
of you, waiting for you to mature into a sexual being...

... I'll never regard you as the fem, ever again, if you like. Know that I
see fem in everyone though...


I felt a lot of things from you that day. Unless you want to explore those
elements of yourself, I'd keep our relationship to a boyish regard if I
were you. Alternatively, I'd enjoy experiencing our bodies together, but
maybe that's out of your comprehension. Know that I hold you in exquisite
regard either way.


From: Dante Cassius <exaltedunmelody at gmail.com>

Date: Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 10:47 AM

To: Andrew Byrne <andrew at pachakutech.com>

 What the fuck?

I DON'T publicly identify as fem. Quite the opposite and I've said so
several times. Now you want to act like I was coming on to YOU, or
something, when I've never thought of us as anything but friends.

For future reference, by the way, if someone tells you you're making them
uncomfortable? You fucking APOLOGIZE and then STOP. You don't sit there and
tell me I was coming on to you and in denial about it. I'd say "fuck you"
but you'd probably take that as a come-on, so go die in a fire you creepy


From: Andrew Byrne <andrew at pachakutech.com>

Date: Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 12:29 PM

To: Dante Cassius <exaltedunmelody at gmail.com>

Lol, rly?

You are a confused child, and conflating too many points for me to assume
you are arguing in good faith.

On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 1:36 AM, Yan Zhu <yan at mit.edu> wrote:

> Hi all,
> I unfortunately could not make it to the meeting last Tuesday, but it
> seems that an accurate summary of the decision there is that Carl and Kevin
> are designated mediators between Drew and the accusing parties. The meeting
> notes <https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Meeting_Notes_2013_06_18> do not
> indicate whether there are deadlines for the mediation process to start/end
> or whether any part of the mediation process has to be executed
> transparently.
> Although mediation seems fair and reasonable, I can completely understand
> how someone can get the impression that Noisebridge hasn't given the
> situation the attention it deserves just from reading the meeting notes. At
> the very least, I would like answers to:
> * Has the mediation process started already?
> * If so, what has been done? If not, are there ways in which we can
> expedite the process?
> Given that this is a high-priority issue for not only the involved parties
> but also any Noisebridge community members who care about creating a safe,
> respectful space, it would be distressing to me to see "mediation" treated
> as a black box that eventually solves things. Mainly I'm concerned about
> the process taking an indefinite amount of time and making the people who
> have been hurt feel like their emotions are being ignored.
> Thanks,
> Yan
> On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 12:11 AM, Lillian Fleurs <lillian.fleurs at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>> I mean really? Mediation? For a potential RAPIST.
>> What the fuck is wrong with you guys? It's not like I'll ever be back
>> there anyways, I have my own life elsewhere. But WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG
>> WITH YOU GUYS? You'd happily go into a space with a rapist who hacks but
>> won't go into one with a few harmless homeless kid who use the kitchen? You
>> guys have some SERIOUS fucking moral issues you need to sort out.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> --
> Yan Zhu
> http://web.mit.edu/zyan/www/
> _______________________________________________
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss


.  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
Liz Henry
lhenry at mozilla.com
lizhenry at gmail.com
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