[Noisebridge-discuss] Community, FTP, & Problem Solving

Norman pryankster at gmail.com
Sat Jun 29 01:42:24 UTC 2013

I didn't mean my note to sound like an attack. I just wanted to set the 
record straight that I am on your side of the issue.


On 6/28/2013 6:32 PM, rachel lyra hospodar wrote:
> Hi norman,
> My assertion is that who needs to go to workshops around creeperism is 
> everyone who thinks creeperism should be addressed, because then folks 
> who aren't creepers can learn some things about how to help ameliorate 
> the problem. The interpretation your second message here reinforces 
> for me is one where you seem to believe creepers oughta be educated, 
> and that you also believe workshops would be towards that end.  This 
> leaves off any hope of educating concerned bystanders (that would, 
> presumably, include you) and creating a non-rapey culture.  I am glad 
> if that's not what you mean. That's how it reads to me.
> I empathize if you feel that you've been misrepresented. It was not a 
> direct quote, but a paraphrase, because my intention was not to convey 
> your thoughts. That was what you did, or attempted to (all 
> communication being an approximation, after all).
> I wanted to convey the way I read, experienced, and interpreted, what 
> had been written.  It is not my goal to misinterpret people. It is 
> something that we all do, and hopefully work continually to do less.
> I feel like my argument with you here is the same as my recent one 
> on-list with johnny radio. Some things I expect from people who are my 
> allies:
> -accepting my feelings as valid
> -accepting that communication is a two-way street
> -accepting that your responsibility to attempt to communicate your 
> feelings accurately is precisely equal to my responsibility to attempt 
> to interpret them correctly.
> For me, the logical outcome of these tenets is that, if an ally of 
> mine speaks in a way that convinces me they hold a certain belief, 
> then they would be concerned, and seek to change the way they are 
> speaking.  For others, the logical outcome of being misunderstood 
> seems to be to argue why the other person was wrong for not 
> understanding them.  Shrug.
> R.
> On Jun 28, 2013 6:14 PM, "Norman" <pryankster at gmail.com 
> <mailto:pryankster at gmail.com>> wrote:
>     I think you were trying to quote a comment I made and what you
>     said is NOT what I said. What I said is that my experience has
>     been that the people that need to go to these workshops are the
>     people that don't show up.
>     I did not say that there is no use in having them and didn't say
>     anything about that I "believed that harassment is only the
>     problem of skeevy creepers, and those they creep on." Harassment
>     and assault are a serious problem in our society not just at
>     Noisebridge.
>     If you are going to quote me please be correct and don't put words
>     or motives in my mouth. I am quite capable of doing that myself.
>     Norman
>     On 6/27/2013 5:49 PM, rachel lyra hospodar wrote:
>         Thank you for caring! I got really sad about someone else's
>         offhanded comment that if we do any realtime meetups around
>         harrassment issues, there is no use because the people who
>         need them won't be there...
>         Which is to say, that person believed that harassment is only
>         the problem of skeevy creepers, and those they creep on.
>         I believe it's helpful for anyone who wants to demonstrate
>         that they retain some humanity to engage with the issue.  I
>         also believe that anyone who is interested in the problem is
>         qualified to engage with it, and in fact the entire thrust of
>         hackering is that you don't need anyone's permission, or to
>         reach an educational benchmark, to begin working.
>         R.
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