[Noisebridge-discuss] It has come to my attention that...

Tue Jun 18 19:47:45 UTC 2013

I'd also like to take this moment to examine this: my not responding in a
manner suitably respectful to the plaintiff is "the problem people are
pointing out". Because I seem to remember this was all about me forcing
non-consensual sexual contact, not writing emails that dismiss people's
feelings.

The take home here, for those still watching, is that there are no reports
of me touching anyone when not asked to and that the one time I was asked
to stop, I did--though confused b/c its a damn shot, not a come-on--and
then sat across the room. I'll repeat that at the meeting, and see if
anyone disagrees.

Those who /have/ known me sexually will recognize my strict adherence to
verbal consent. I've been in the scene for a decade now and am quite
familiar with the pleasures of consensual sex; this episode has been both
hilarious and insulting and we need to create a better way to handle
situations like it if we want to continue providing an extralegal venue.

-dru

On Jun 18, 2013 11:52 AM, "Andrew Byrne" <andrew at pachakutech.com> wrote:
>
> I think my actions here are the result of there being no framework here,
and an advocate (you, Liz) taking the position of moderator.
>
> If this had been handled in a kangaroo court, it would have more civil.
Don't point out my aggressive pursuit of the matter on list as "part of my
problem"; point out the lack of advocates as necessitating such action, or
the assumption of guilt and broken procedures as an invitation for abuse
and fraud.
>
> The Lillian matter, as seen /in detail/ here, had nothing to do with what
you just pointed out; my aggressive response to claims of sexual abuse is
what you seem to have a problem with.
>
> That's your problem.
> -dru
>
> On Jun 18, 2013 11:17 AM, "Liz Henry" <lizhenry at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> My thought here is that Dru's responses are indicative of the problem
people are pointing out.  His emails back and forth with Dante also are
very indicative of this problem as Dante says "don't sexualize our
interactions" and he continues doing so, while attempting to gaslight Dante
and telling him that he(Dru) know what he wants better than Dante knows it
. That is a very serious interpersonal problem.  Please consider it, Dru.
>>
>> I would describe this pattern (to be overly generous) as overstepping
what would commonly be thought of as a boundary socially and physically,
and sexualizing people and situations inappropriately, even after they set
a boundary explicitly.  Dru's emails continue that pattern right out in
public.
>>
>>
>> Liz
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Lillian Fleurs <lillian.fleurs at gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>
>>> @Daniel
>>> The medication I take is hardly experimental and has been prescribed to
me by a licensed physician. It's a common prescription given to anyone with
an incorrect balance of hormones, including those seeking treatment for
gender dysphoria. At the time I was homeless and the shot was already
several days late because I was trying to find a more suitable location.
Doing a sterile intramuscular injection in a private room in Noisebridge
seemed far more ideal than dealing with heat flashes and excessive
moodiness.
>>>
>>> @Dru
>>> I'd like to add that I was sitting far away from you, looking down in
shock from being violated. I kept trying to give you the benefit of the
doubt, but your complete denial of what happened and your inability to
apologize or defend your actions in a way that made sense leads me to
believe that my assumption that you're a sexual predator and don't belong
at Noisebridge is correct.
>>>
>>> As for advocates, anyone who's willing to stand for my side can email
me.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 5:32 PM, Daniel Kelly <arrays.tostring at gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>
>>>> There are worse places than Noisebridge for injecting of experimental
medications with needles.
>>>> None immediately come to mind though.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 12:46 PM, Lillian Fleurs <
lillian.fleurs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> You tried to unzip my pants for me, that's what initially made me
uncomfortable. You reached around my body, putting your hands very near my
genitals and began to unzip my pants for me. That's when I tensed up and
asked you what the fuck you were doing. You made me far too tense and
uncomfortable to receive a shot from you. It also wasn't until Kim came
into the room offering you weed that you actually left. Dante was not in
the room when it happened, it was only you and I. However Dante did see my
fear, shock and discomfort after the incident. And it was Dante who helped
calm me down enough to be able to receive my estrogen injection.
>>>>>
>>>>> The email I sent to Tony, which was later sent to Liz is word for
word what happened. Below is a screenshot.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Andrew Byrne <andrew at pachakutech.com>
wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Since this is all out on the list, I feel the need to present my
side; it is clear to me now what this is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For a few weeks, Lillian had asked of I could give her one of her
supplemental estrogen shots, and one night I was at NoiseBridge when
Lillian asked me to give her her shot. I said sure, she climbed up, laid
down on the table, and pulled down her jeans enough to expose her buttocks,
I readied the injection and placed my left hand on the back of her upper
thigh. She stiffened, and told me that she felt uncomfortable, so I
stopped, moved away, apologized for the discomfort and then left the room.
There was never a "what the fuck are you doing?".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's pretty rich that /she/ is accusing me of cocaine use. It's not
out of my experience, but as I have dopamine insensitivity--ADD--the stuff
doesn't have the pleasure response for me that justifies the absurd prices;
that and the killing South Americans bit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unfortunately, the only other witness in the room was Dante I think
Dante was expelled from the Tuesday meeting two weeks ago and is
unquestionably her "other people"--Dante got angry when I sent him an email
invitation to a 'digital feminine' salon b/c he doesn't see himself as
feminine and started this whole process about three weeks after Lillian
left; it was then that Lillian "unfriended" me on Fb. That only sounds
trite until I add that she accepted my friend request after leaving SF for
wherever she is now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd still like to drag up the Dante incident, as there were several
witnesses on my side and a documented willful misrepresentation to Liz on
Dante's. I would like to ask Liz now to retain copies of her emails
regarding this for possible subpoena.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A friend? No you saw me as a rube.
>>>>>> -dru
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jun 17, 2013 11:06 AM, "Lillian Fleurs" <lillian.fleurs at gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well maybe you should have thought about these things before you
pinned me down on a table and began unzipping my pants without any
permission at all, refusing to stop even after I froze in fear asking what
the fuck you were doing. I was shaken after that. I used to like you Drew,
and it took me so long to report anything because I was worried about
hurting someone I thought was a good person. You seemed to be high on
cocaine or something, which initially allowed me to excuse the behavior. It
wasn't until other people made me realize this wasn't just a one off
incident that I decided to report what had happened. I recall you making
creepy sexual comments about others way before this incident too, so
looking back now I don't find what happened surprising and I probably could
have prevented being violated.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 12:33 AM, Andrew Byrne <
andrew at pachakutech.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would also like to point out the assumption of my guilt
throughout this discourse; I was told I was considered a sexual predator by
the anarcho-fem community a week before being contacted officially, and
this hateful trope has been driving me away from the space since. It will
doubtless screw with my social life for another few months and affects me
professionally; I can't even get a response from Mozilla's bug network now,
thanks to this. I know, hard to empathize with someone the mediator is
calling out, but once this is cleared up, I'd like this experience well
documented -dru
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jun 16, 2013 9:29 PM, "Liz Henry" <lizhenry at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I would also like for this to be discussed again in a meeting. I
brought this up at the meeting not last week but the week before. But, I
have not been in the greatest of health and have missed a lot of meetings.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It was also brought to my attention that Jesse Z. wants to come
back to Noisebridge.   I do not think this is a good idea.  Basically, I
don't want to be around people who have behaved in the ways that either
Jesse and Dru have behaved.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There are so many good things about Noisebridge, and about its
openness.  To keep that good for as many people as possible we do need to
have good boundaries.  And ask people who have shown great disrespect for
others by non consensual behavior to stay away and work out their issues to
learn better behavior in some other context, rather than being in the
middle of an space without much in the way of rules or safety.  Sexual
assault and other violent behavior destroys our ability to trust each
other. I want to be able to trust people at NB, and to be able to tell
others they are likely relatively safe there.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Liz
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 8:41 PM, Lillian Fleurs <
lillian.fleurs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A member of the community known as Andrew "Dru" Byrne has yet to
be kicked out of the community. Right before I moved he did some EXTREMELY
inappropriate and non consensual things to me that extend far beyond
creepy. I sent some emails to Tony "LeTigre", who then forwarded them to
Liz. I had asked both of them to keep what had happened to me anonymous.
I'm coming out of anonymity because it appears nothing has been done to get
rid of someone who poses a high threat to other members of the community
(both male and female, trans and cis).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately since I no longer live in San Francisco, I can not
show up to a Noisebridge meeting but I would like this issue brought up,
because others who still use the space have expressed to me that they don't
feel safe around Andrew either.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm sorry for the drama, but I'm not the one who started it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
>>>>>>>>> Liz Henry
>>>>>>>>> lhenry at mozilla.com
>>>>>>>>> lizhenry at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
>> Liz Henry
>> lhenry at mozilla.com
>> lizhenry at gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
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