[Noisebridge-discuss] [SPAM] Tattoos vs. behavior

Mitchel McAllister xonimmortal at yahoo.com
Wed Jun 19 13:40:35 UTC 2013


1. You are conflating someone baring their asshole with someone having a tattoo.

2. No, I did not offer therapy or suggest therapy. If you had even bothered to even look at the linked article, you would have noted the basis upon which REBT is founded. Specifically, STIMULUS leads to THOUGHT (sometimes the word ATTITUDE is used instead) leads to EMOTION leads to RESPONSE/BEHAVIOR.

In this case, the STIMULUS was several times removed from the actual actors in this melodrama. As much as several people have tried to point out that the THOUGHT/ATTITUDE was misplaced and following a major, unwarranted assumption, the actors continued to charge right through to RESPONSE/BEHAVIOR while attempting to make a person (they have not met or spoken to) automatically and irrevocably guilty of all crimes specified and unspecified.

3. Since when is having a tattoo an illegal behavior? Since when is getting a tattoo a deliberate act of violence?

4. You may allow people around you to judge others based solely on appearances, but I judge people on their behavior and the way they treat others.

5. Yet demanding that he justify himself to a bunch of people he has never seen or met is somehow justice. Go back and read the definition again, I think you missed something.

6. Please continue to not approach me if you feel that superficial features outweigh a person's intrinsic worth and value.

7. No, not based on secret evidence, based on personal interaction. This evidence is freely available for anyone who wants it. I am not in the habit of running around behind my friends' backs repeating things they have said to me. Just because people are too lazy or shallow to actually seek the knowledge does not give them the right to make extremely bigoted character judgements. But then again, you refused to even take note of the information I linked to, so I am not surprised.

8. Not much, just eight words.

9. There were no unsupported insults. There were several insinuations. And Robby has not messaged the group at all. The first message was from Dru, asking for clarification. The second message was from me, clarifying that Red and Robby are not the same person. The following umpteen messages were a bunch of people telling me who I am allowed to be friends with, assassinating my character, and wailing and flailing to keep the spotlight on their "hurt feelings".

Furthermore, if I was to see a bunch of people dogpiling on me on an email list to which I was not even subscribed, even refusing to acknowledge any voices of moderation or caution (including, in fact, further insults and denigrations heaped on the owners of those voices), I would not have any confidence whatsoever on the reasonableness of those people, nor their willingness to even listen to one word which I might say.

I would like to point out that it was not too long ago that a couple members tried to get someone banned for their behavior on the list (said behavior being sarcasm and jokes). Yet it is okay for people to tell me that I am a terrible, despicable person because I am friends with another person. It is okay for them to point fingers at me and be denigrating when I try to correct their mistaken assumption.

- Reverend Mik McAllister
"You can see the summit but you can't reach it
Its the last piece of the puzzle but you just can't make it fit
Doctor says you're cured but you still feel the pain
Aspirations in the clouds but your hopes go down the drain"
 - Howard Jones, "No One Is To Blame"
Purveyor of Subversive Fiction
http://www.prismandink.com
http://www.lunatextpublications.com


--- On Tue, 6/18/13, John Shutt  wrote:

> From: John Shutt 
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] [SPAM] Tattoos vs. behavior
> To: "Mitchel McAllister" 
> Cc: "NoiseBridge Discuss" 
> Date: Tuesday, June 18, 2013, 12:37 PM
> Okay,
> I've got a few minutes to kill...
> 
> 1. If you are offended regarding his tattoos, don't
> look. They are not 
> your tattoos. Nobody in or outside of Noisebridge needs to
> consult you, 
> the membership, the board, or the Grand Poobah of
> Noisebridge regarding 
> what tattoos they are allowed or forbidden to get
> 
> Let's say someone decides to stand up on a table
> at Noisebridge, drop their pants, spread their buttcheeks,
> and spin around in a circle. I think that for many visitors
> to Noisebridge, a spread-open butthole would be less
> offensive (and certainly less threatening) than a white
> power tattoo. Despite that, nobody would have objections if
> the butthole guy was asked to leave and come back to a
> Tuesday meeting. Nobody would argue that people who are
> offended should just turn away from the butthole, or not
> gaze quite so long into the abyss of the butthole. This
> display, like the display of a white power tattoo, is
> offensive and disruptive enough to warrant some action.
> 
> 
> There are lots of other issues that could be
> "solved" by the upset person(s) looking away, such
> as:
> * Someone masturbating in the corner
> * Someone leering at girls
> * Someone following you around, just staring and
> saying nothing
> 
> * Someone standing by the door, giving everyone
> who enters the finger
> * Someone putting up Whites Only signs on various
> rooms
> 
> But it would be ridiculous to suggest that the
> person being victimized in any of those circumstances is the
> problem.
> 
> 
> 2. No, his tattoos do not offend you. You have, based on
> your experiences and attitudes, chosen to be offended by
> them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_emotive_therapy#Theoretical_assumptions
> 
> 
> You've upped the ante from, "You
> shouldn't be offended," to, "You aren't
> actually offended, you're confused about what you're
> actually feeling, here's some therapy that might
> help." Without getting into whether this attitude is
> right or wrong, you might want to reconsider it from a
> rhetorical perspective, since it's incredibly
> insulting.
> 
> 
> 3. Yes, getting a tattoo is a behavior. However, what one
> does 
> elsewhere, unconnected to Noisebridge, is none of
> Noisebridge's 
> business. To my knowledge, only one person has gotten a
> tattoo *at* 
> Noisebridge. Robby is not that person.
> 
> The second sentence here is obviously untrue. If
> we find that someone is a thief or serial rapist outside of
> Noisebridge, that will affect their position at Noisebridge.
> Rolling back to the first sentence, getting the
> tattoo is only the first piece of behavior. The main
> concerns here are keeping the tattoo and
> displaying the tattoo.
> 
> 
> 4. If you all are allowed to make assumptions based on
> appearances, then
>  everyone else in the space is allowed to do the same to
> you. As I have 
> said before, Hell is your double standards applied back at
> you.
> 
> Yes, everyone is allowed to make assumptions
> based on appearance, when the person chose that
> appearance for themselves. They are sending signals about
> their opinions and attitudes. If I got a cross tattooed on
> my bicep, it would be a safe assumption that I was a
> Christian. And if I got a white power tattoo on my head...
> 
> 
> 
> 5. I could explain Robby's tattoos, if I wanted to
> disrespect him by 
> repeating several conversations that I had with him, without
> his 
> permission, to a bunch of people who are going to assume the
> worst of 
> him anyway. Doubly disrespectful, in light of the fact that
> he has asked
>  me to tell anyone who brings it up "they can come talk
> to me about it 
> or shut up".
> 
> I think that he should come on the list and
> explain his tattoos himself. If people have concerns about
> the tattoos, but avoid confronting him because they are
> afraid he will become violent, that is a serious issue.
> Demanding that every person approach him individually is
> unreasonable.
> 
> 
> 
> 6. Considering that Robby was completely comfortable
> having a 
> conversation with a gay man, a woman of Asian descent, a
> male of African
>  descent, and a differently-abled person, perhaps all of you
> need to 
> stop perpetuating your self-fulfilling prophecies and treat
> other people
>  like human beings. Despite what your mommy and preacher
> told you 
> growing up, it won't kill you.
> 
> Human beings are sometimes violent racists. If
> you have a tattoo that is associated with racist gangs, and
> I have no other information about you, I'm not going to
> approach you to talk about politics.
> 
> 
> 
> 7. I have been working in political and social issues a
> lot longer than 
> most of you have been alive. My first political action,
> against 
> homophobia and racism, took place before most you were
> conceived. I was 
> facing loaded guns before most of you were facing loaded
> diapers. I was 
> giving speeches and workshops on fighting bigotry before
> most of you 
> learned to speak (which really isn't saying much, given
> the coherence 
> and logical fallacies being exhibited by some of you).
> 
> This is not particularly relevant. Your main
> arguments so far are that this person is not racist, based
> on secret evidence you don't care to share with anyone,
> and that people who are offended aren't actually
> offended and should look into therapy. It's arguments
> that most people are concerned about, not credentials.
> 
> 
> 
> 8. I realize this email violates all the Unwritten
> Unified Field Theory 
> Policy of Noisebridge Email Lists (c). Both those who would
> object the 
> most already, according to one of our Ultimate Excellent
> Authorities On 
> Proper Email Behavior (c), have filters set up to delete my
> email to the
>  list anyway.
> 
> I don't have much to say about this.
> 
> 
> 9. I would suggest you all put on your big boy/girl
> panties, add a 
> little calcium to your vertebrae( 0+0.1>0), and act like
> adults. 
> Either talk to him yourself, or STFU. All you are doing
> right now is 
> precisely what you bitch and moan about: manufacturing
> melodrama so you 
> can make sure you get all the spotlight time you think you
> deserve. In 
> my experience, those who make the most noise on a subject
> are the least 
> deserving of being listened to.
> 
> Closing out with a series of unsupported insults.
> Again, this is a poor rhetorical strategy. The only thing of
> substance here is the assertion that people on the list are
> manufacturing melodrama. But the first real message was from
> Robby, with his tattoo. If someone sent an e-mail to this
> list with nothing but a subject line that read "WHITE
> PRIDE," "WHITE POWER," or "HITLER
> A-OK," I think it would be fair for people to look into
> it.
> 
> 
> John
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at
> 3:45 AM, Mitchel McAllister 
> wrote:
> 
> 1. If
> you are offended regarding his tattoos, don't look. They
> are not your tattoos. Nobody in or outside of Noisebridge
> needs to consult you, the membership, the board, or the
> Grand Poobah of Noisebridge regarding what tattoos they are
> allowed or forbidden to get
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. No, his tattoos do not offend you. You have, based on
> your experiences and attitudes, chosen to be offended by
> them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_emotive_therapy#Theoretical_assumptions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Yes, getting a tattoo is a behavior. However, what one
> does elsewhere, unconnected to Noisebridge, is none of
> Noisebridge's business. To my knowledge, only one person
> has gotten a tattoo *at* Noisebridge. Robby is not that
> person.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4. If you all are allowed to make assumptions based on
> appearances, then everyone else in the space is allowed to
> do the same to you. As I have said before, Hell is your
> double standards applied back at you.
> 
> 
> 
> 5. I could explain Robby's tattoos, if I wanted to
> disrespect him by repeating several conversations that I had
> with him, without his permission, to a bunch of people who
> are going to assume the worst of him anyway. Doubly
> disrespectful, in light of the fact that he has asked me to
> tell anyone who brings it up "they can come talk to me
> about it or shut up".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6. Considering that Robby was completely comfortable having
> a conversation with a gay man, a woman of Asian descent, a
> male of African descent, and a differently-abled person,
> perhaps all of you need to stop perpetuating your
> self-fulfilling prophecies and treat other people like human
> beings. Despite what your mommy and preacher told you
> growing up, it won't kill you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7. I have been working in political and social issues a lot
> longer than most of you have been alive. My first political
> action, against homophobia and racism, took place before
> most you were conceived. I was facing loaded guns before
> most of you were facing loaded diapers. I was giving
> speeches and workshops on fighting bigotry before most of
> you learned to speak (which really isn't saying much,
> given the coherence and logical fallacies being exhibited by
> some of you).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8. I realize this email violates all the Unwritten Unified
> Field Theory Policy of Noisebridge Email Lists (c). Both
> those who would object the most already, according to one of
> our Ultimate Excellent Authorities On Proper Email Behavior
> (c), have filters set up to delete my email to the list
> anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9. I would suggest you all put on your big boy/girl panties,
> add a little calcium to your vertebrae( 0+0.1>0), and act
> like adults. Either talk to him yourself, or STFU. All you
> are doing right now is precisely what you bitch and moan
> about: manufacturing melodrama so you can make sure you get
> all the spotlight time you think you deserve. In my
> experience, those who make the most noise on a subject are
> the least deserving of being listened to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Reverend Mik McAllister
> 
> "You can see the summit but you can't reach it
> 
> Its the last piece of the puzzle but you just can't make
> it fit
> 
> Doctor says you're cured but you still feel the pain
> 
> Aspirations in the clouds but your hopes go down the
> drain"
> 
>  - Howard Jones, "No One Is To Blame"
> 
> Purveyor of Subversive Fiction
> 
> http://www.prismandink.com
> 
> http://www.lunatextpublications.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> 
> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> 
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> 
> 
> 
>



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