[Noisebridge-discuss] It has come to my attention that...

Daniel Kelly arrays.tostring at gmail.com
Wed Jun 19 17:57:27 UTC 2013


Please do not have sex at Noisebridge.


On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Andrew Byrne <andrew at pachakutech.com>wrote:

> I'd also like to take this moment to examine this: my not responding in a
> manner suitably respectful to the plaintiff is "the problem people are
> pointing out". Because I seem to remember this was all about me forcing
> non-consensual sexual contact, not writing emails that dismiss people's
> feelings.
>
> The take home here, for those still watching, is that there are no reports
> of me touching anyone when not asked to and that the one time I was asked
> to stop, I did--though confused b/c its a damn shot, not a come-on--and
> then sat across the room. I'll repeat that at the meeting, and see if
> anyone disagrees.
>
> Those who /have/ known me sexually will recognize my strict adherence to
> verbal consent. I've been in the scene for a decade now and am quite
> familiar with the pleasures of consensual sex; this episode has been both
> hilarious and insulting and we need to create a better way to handle
> situations like it if we want to continue providing an extralegal venue.
>
> -dru
>
> On Jun 18, 2013 11:52 AM, "Andrew Byrne" <andrew at pachakutech.com> wrote:
> >
> > I think my actions here are the result of there being no framework here,
> and an advocate (you, Liz) taking the position of moderator.
> >
> > If this had been handled in a kangaroo court, it would have more civil.
> Don't point out my aggressive pursuit of the matter on list as "part of my
> problem"; point out the lack of advocates as necessitating such action, or
> the assumption of guilt and broken procedures as an invitation for abuse
> and fraud.
> >
> > The Lillian matter, as seen /in detail/ here, had nothing to do with
> what you just pointed out; my aggressive response to claims of sexual abuse
> is what you seem to have a problem with.
> >
> > That's your problem.
> > -dru
> >
> > On Jun 18, 2013 11:17 AM, "Liz Henry" <lizhenry at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> My thought here is that Dru's responses are indicative of the problem
> people are pointing out.  His emails back and forth with Dante also are
> very indicative of this problem as Dante says "don't sexualize our
> interactions" and he continues doing so, while attempting to gaslight Dante
> and telling him that he(Dru) know what he wants better than Dante knows it
> . That is a very serious interpersonal problem.  Please consider it, Dru.
> >>
> >> I would describe this pattern (to be overly generous) as overstepping
> what would commonly be thought of as a boundary socially and physically,
> and sexualizing people and situations inappropriately, even after they set
> a boundary explicitly.  Dru's emails continue that pattern right out in
> public.
> >>
> >>
> >> Liz
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Lillian Fleurs <
> lillian.fleurs at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> @Daniel
> >>> The medication I take is hardly experimental and has been prescribed
> to me by a licensed physician. It's a common prescription given to anyone
> with an incorrect balance of hormones, including those seeking treatment
> for gender dysphoria. At the time I was homeless and the shot was already
> several days late because I was trying to find a more suitable location.
> Doing a sterile intramuscular injection in a private room in Noisebridge
> seemed far more ideal than dealing with heat flashes and excessive
> moodiness.
> >>>
> >>> @Dru
> >>> I'd like to add that I was sitting far away from you, looking down in
> shock from being violated. I kept trying to give you the benefit of the
> doubt, but your complete denial of what happened and your inability to
> apologize or defend your actions in a way that made sense leads me to
> believe that my assumption that you're a sexual predator and don't belong
> at Noisebridge is correct.
> >>>
> >>> As for advocates, anyone who's willing to stand for my side can email
> me.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 5:32 PM, Daniel Kelly <
> arrays.tostring at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> There are worse places than Noisebridge for injecting of experimental
> medications with needles.
> >>>> None immediately come to mind though.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 12:46 PM, Lillian Fleurs <
> lillian.fleurs at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You tried to unzip my pants for me, that's what initially made me
> uncomfortable. You reached around my body, putting your hands very near my
> genitals and began to unzip my pants for me. That's when I tensed up and
> asked you what the fuck you were doing. You made me far too tense and
> uncomfortable to receive a shot from you. It also wasn't until Kim came
> into the room offering you weed that you actually left. Dante was not in
> the room when it happened, it was only you and I. However Dante did see my
> fear, shock and discomfort after the incident. And it was Dante who helped
> calm me down enough to be able to receive my estrogen injection.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The email I sent to Tony, which was later sent to Liz is word for
> word what happened. Below is a screenshot.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Andrew Byrne <
> andrew at pachakutech.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Since this is all out on the list, I feel the need to present my
> side; it is clear to me now what this is.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> For a few weeks, Lillian had asked of I could give her one of her
> supplemental estrogen shots, and one night I was at NoiseBridge when
> Lillian asked me to give her her shot. I said sure, she climbed up, laid
> down on the table, and pulled down her jeans enough to expose her buttocks,
> I readied the injection and placed my left hand on the back of her upper
> thigh. She stiffened, and told me that she felt uncomfortable, so I
> stopped, moved away, apologized for the discomfort and then left the room.
> There was never a "what the fuck are you doing?".
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> It's pretty rich that /she/ is accusing me of cocaine use. It's not
> out of my experience, but as I have dopamine insensitivity--ADD--the stuff
> doesn't have the pleasure response for me that justifies the absurd prices;
> that and the killing South Americans bit.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Unfortunately, the only other witness in the room was Dante I think
> Dante was expelled from the Tuesday meeting two weeks ago and is
> unquestionably her "other people"--Dante got angry when I sent him an email
> invitation to a 'digital feminine' salon b/c he doesn't see himself as
> feminine and started this whole process about three weeks after Lillian
> left; it was then that Lillian "unfriended" me on Fb. That only sounds
> trite until I add that she accepted my friend request after leaving SF for
> wherever she is now.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'd still like to drag up the Dante incident, as there were several
> witnesses on my side and a documented willful misrepresentation to Liz on
> Dante's. I would like to ask Liz now to retain copies of her emails
> regarding this for possible subpoena.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> A friend? No you saw me as a rube.
> >>>>>> -dru
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Jun 17, 2013 11:06 AM, "Lillian Fleurs" <
> lillian.fleurs at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Well maybe you should have thought about these things before you
> pinned me down on a table and began unzipping my pants without any
> permission at all, refusing to stop even after I froze in fear asking what
> the fuck you were doing. I was shaken after that. I used to like you Drew,
> and it took me so long to report anything because I was worried about
> hurting someone I thought was a good person. You seemed to be high on
> cocaine or something, which initially allowed me to excuse the behavior. It
> wasn't until other people made me realize this wasn't just a one off
> incident that I decided to report what had happened. I recall you making
> creepy sexual comments about others way before this incident too, so
> looking back now I don't find what happened surprising and I probably could
> have prevented being violated.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 12:33 AM, Andrew Byrne <
> andrew at pachakutech.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I would also like to point out the assumption of my guilt
> throughout this discourse; I was told I was considered a sexual predator by
> the anarcho-fem community a week before being contacted officially, and
> this hateful trope has been driving me away from the space since. It will
> doubtless screw with my social life for another few months and affects me
> professionally; I can't even get a response from Mozilla's bug network now,
> thanks to this. I know, hard to empathize with someone the mediator is
> calling out, but once this is cleared up, I'd like this experience well
> documented -dru
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Jun 16, 2013 9:29 PM, "Liz Henry" <lizhenry at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I would also like for this to be discussed again in a meeting. I
> brought this up at the meeting not last week but the week before. But, I
> have not been in the greatest of health and have missed a lot of meetings.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> It was also brought to my attention that Jesse Z. wants to come
> back to Noisebridge.   I do not think this is a good idea.  Basically, I
> don't want to be around people who have behaved in the ways that either
> Jesse and Dru have behaved.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> There are so many good things about Noisebridge, and about its
> openness.  To keep that good for as many people as possible we do need to
> have good boundaries.  And ask people who have shown great disrespect for
> others by non consensual behavior to stay away and work out their issues to
> learn better behavior in some other context, rather than being in the
> middle of an space without much in the way of rules or safety.  Sexual
> assault and other violent behavior destroys our ability to trust each
> other. I want to be able to trust people at NB, and to be able to tell
> others they are likely relatively safe there.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Best,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Liz
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 8:41 PM, Lillian Fleurs <
> lillian.fleurs at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> A member of the community known as Andrew "Dru" Byrne has yet
> to be kicked out of the community. Right before I moved he did some
> EXTREMELY inappropriate and non consensual things to me that extend far
> beyond creepy. I sent some emails to Tony "LeTigre", who then forwarded
> them to Liz. I had asked both of them to keep what had happened to me
> anonymous. I'm coming out of anonymity because it appears nothing has been
> done to get rid of someone who poses a high threat to other members of the
> community (both male and female, trans and cis).
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately since I no longer live in San Francisco, I can
> not show up to a Noisebridge meeting but I would like this issue brought
> up, because others who still use the space have expressed to me that they
> don't feel safe around Andrew either.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I'm sorry for the drama, but I'm not the one who started it.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>>>>>>>>>
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
> >>>>>>>>> Liz Henry
> >>>>>>>>> lhenry at mozilla.com
> >>>>>>>>> lizhenry at gmail.com
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
> >> Liz Henry
> >> lhenry at mozilla.com
> >> lizhenry at gmail.com
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
>
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