[Noisebridge-discuss] It has come to my attention that...

Thu Jun 20 16:43:46 UTC 2013

Hey! Haskell! Ftw!

Alcides Gutierrez
http://e64.us
On Jun 20, 2013 7:33 AM, "Jeffrey Carl Faden" <jeffreyatw at gmail.com> wrote:

> Just throwing in my +1 here. Really wish this hackerspace was not a place
> for breakfast hacking or sleep hacking or dog poop hacking or drug dealing
> hacking (yes guys in Church on Monday, I did see you selling weed in Church
> on Monday - my bad that all I did was scowl).
>
> None of the above actually help the space achieve its stated goals. Hate
> to say it, but I expect much more traditional hacking from a hackerspace.
>
> Sure you might not currently have a home, but Noisebridge is not a hostel
> or a halfway house.
>
> Jeffrey
>
> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 2:32 AM, Danny O'Brien <danny at spesh.com> wrote:
>
>> You see, this is just what I'm talking about. You unzip someone's pants
>> without their permission ONCE in a hackerspace, and suddenly everyone is
>> acting like that's not a mistake that *anyone* could make.
>>
>> I think pretty much that Noisebridge would die tomorrow if we to take the
>> extreme action of telling people who are all about the injecting, or the
>> unzipping, or the nazi tattooing,  and asked them never to come back. It's
>> almost certain to me that people to inject or unzip or white power
>> tattoo-wield, are the lifeblood of any hackerspace.
>>
>> The oversensitive people who freak out and never come back because
>> Noisebridge seems to be filled with people who see absolutely no problem in
>> injecting medicine, unzipping clothes and then stoutly defend their act in
>> the face of the person who they unzipped going WTF, or hanging around
>> without thinking that maybe, just maybe, their white power tattoo might be
>> a bit... how can I say, de trop.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm joking of course.
>>
>> What I mean to say here is: WHAT THE FUCK? WHAT THE LIVING, FUCKING FUCK
>> FUCK THE FUCK?
>>
>> Are you people so *INSANE* that you think that ANY OF THIS is acceptable
>> behaviour ANYWHERE?
>>
>> Have you wandered SO FAR off the MAIN SEQUENCE of HUMANITY that you think
>> that not only ANY OF THIS STUFF is okay, and not the stuff of writing "okay
>> boy i fucked up really badly there maybe i'm going to spend like six months
>> with just me a copy of the world's literature and Eliza, the AI therapist
>> to work out how to sort my screwed out self out", let alone posting screeds
>> EVEN LONGER THAN THIS one stoutly defending yourself and thinking there is
>> some sort of power-structure conspiracy to persecute you from your
>> god-given right to spend hours a day unzipping and zipping in A ROOM WITH
>> SOME 3D PRINTERS IN IT?
>>
>> Look, together I am happy to work with people to create amazing tools and
>> think new thoughts, have funny stories to tell, and strange robots to
>> build, but I am finally fading in the jolly side-activity of gently guiding
>> people in the apparently tricky task of not spending THREE DAYS IN A ROW
>> without doing something so INCOMPREHENDINGLY AND UNCONSCIOUSLY
>> TRANSGRESSIVE that they don't even anticipate anyone raising a single
>> spock-like eyebrow.
>>
>> Let me count the ways here:
>>
>> 1) Spraying your art endlessly over the space until people coming in
>> can't blink without the after-image stencil of a stockinged lady burned
>> into your retina, and then being amazed when people ask you to maybe stick
>> to just the one beautiful expression of your novelty.
>>
>> 2) Sitting for 6 hours plus watching YouTube waggling your head like
>> you're channelling the spirit every headbanger who has died of an embolism,
>> and then crying censorship when someone hacks the DNS to redirect YouTube
>> and Facebook to our wiki.
>>
>> 3) Deciding to hide out in a tiny space only accessible by the elevator,
>> then ALMOST DYING when the elevator breaks OBVIOUSLY, fighting out through
>> a wall, THEN COMING BACK TO THE SPACE AS THOUGH NOTHING HAS HAPPENED.
>>
>> 4) Answering EVERY move to throw some sorry person's ass out by saying
>> "but $PERSON does $MUCH_WORSE_THING" as though anyone is going to go "Oh
>> good point, in the interest of natural justice and to fight our own
>> hypocrisy, we should let off the guy who is making sarin in the fridge
>> because we didn't quite catch the lady refining uranium 235 in the
>> lavatories last week", instead of expecting the obvious reply "WHY THE HELL
>> DID YOU NOT STOP THE $PERSON instead of waiting for somebody else to do it"
>>
>> 5) Endlessly bitching about the terrifying threat of the "members"
>> imposing their restrictive culture on the free and easy environment of the
>> "non-members"' using their tyrannous non-democratic rules, when a) nobody
>> knows who the hell is a member and who isn't anyway, and none of the
>> members care, and b) simultaneously complaining that the MEMBERS need to
>> step up and throw out the people you don't like, but who apparently you
>> can't quite work out a reason to throw out that might not also include
>> yourself.
>>
>> I realise that out of the above, the unzipping thing applies to you Dru,
>> but seriously, dude, it's not like this is the only person saying you do
>> VERY CREEPY THINGS.
>>
>> You know how many people say "you do very creepy things" to 90% of the
>> population? NOBODY SAYS THAT TO THEM. Y
>>
>> ou know what people who get told "you do creepy things" generally do?
>> THEY STOP DOING THE CREEPY THINGS.
>>
>> They do NOT construct a random conspiracy theory of people who are trying
>> to exclude them for unknown reasons (but which may have to do with an
>> undeniable World Conspiracy Against Creepy Unzipperers)
>>
>> Yes, I know "but Weev", I know "but free speech", I know 'but anarchy", I
>> know "but consensus", I know 'but kyriarchy", I know "but crazy geniuses".
>>
>> Let me be as tactful as I no longer can:
>>
>> I CAN NO LONGER DEFEND THE COLOURFUL BEHAVIOUR OF YOU PEOPLE WHO CAN'T
>> EVEN FIND ANOTHER PLACE TO EAT BREAKFAST.
>>
>> It is a tragedy! It is probably society's fault. But you're COOKING YOUR
>> MEALS in a HACKERSPACE. This is like you COOKING AND HANGING OUT in a
>> COLLEGE LABORATORY. Yes, I know we said that science is awesome and
>> everyone should do it and maybe we can transform politics and art and
>> culture with it, but you ACTUALLY HAVE TO DO IT.
>>
>> YOU ARE NOT DOING IT. YOU ARE NOT DOING ANYTHING . YOU ARE BARELY EVEN
>> GETTING BY IN THIS WORLD.
>>
>> YOU KNOW THIS. I KNOW THIS. BUT IT IS TIME YOU DID SOMETHING ABOUT IT
>> THAN BRINGING YOUR DOG TO NOISEBRIDGE TO TALK TO OTHERS ABOUT IT.
>>
>> The only way you can even be INTERESTING is by hanging around where OTHER
>> PEOPLE MIGHT DO INTERESTING things and SCOWL AT THEM when THE INTERESTING
>> THINGS GET LOUDER THAN THE DUMB YOUTUBE VIDEOS YOU ARE WATCHING.
>>
>> AND NO, I DO MEAN YOU. If you are reading this and firmly agree with 80%
>> of my targets, but then go "hold on that's a bit too far" I DO MEAN YOU.
>>
>> If you go "god maybe he is right and I am not doing enough awesome stuff"
>> I am not talking about you.
>>
>> If you have sat in the library for MONTHS and never at ANY POINT gone "I
>> wonder how I can mess with that game-of-life LED board to do something
>> else", I mean you.
>>
>> If you HAVE thought that, but you have never got around to it, you SHOULD
>> PROBABLY START WORRYING ABOUT YOURSELF RIGHT NOW AND START EATING BREAKFAST
>> ELSEWHERE.
>>
>> You are a smart, engaged person who can read email, but you need to stop
>> hanging around a hackerspace and SORT OUT YOUR LIFE.
>>
>> I am done, guys!! I am the nice kind bearded authority figure dude who
>> gets you your money to do this, and sides with Leif when everyone else is
>> like "maybe we should ask the guy with the FUCK THE NERDS facial carving
>> and the sixteen heroin needles hanging out of his ass" to die in a fire. I
>> am the one in any given situation to be MOST LIKELY TO BE ON YOUR SIDE. I
>> have complicated politics and upbringing and issues which mean that I tend
>> to side with outsiders occasionally to the slight detriment of my own
>> carefully shored-up and middle-class fat-cat lifestyle.
>>
>> I AM NO LONGER EVEN APPARENTLY ON YOUR SIDE. I AM DISCARDING MY NOTIONS
>> OF NEUTRALITY TO ASK YOU TO GO AWAY.
>>
>> YES EVEN WHEN YOU EMAIL ME PRIVATELY WITH YOUR STUPID IDEAS ABOUT MAKING
>> THE PLACE MORE INCLUSIVE.
>>
>> GO AWAY. GO AWAY GO AWAY GO AWAY.
>>
>> I heard that there is a dysfunctional free drama group in Vallejo that
>> you could join! There is a writer's group in a free university that needs
>> contributors! I saw a Craiglist advert for a new group therapy center run
>> by friendly Falun Gong sympathisers in the Presidio! There is a couch in
>> the middle of an unused lot in Treasure island! It has one person there who
>> you can get into arguments about how much of the couch he is taking up!
>> Maybe he will let you help him nonconsensually unzip his pants.
>>
>> WOULD ANYONE ELSE LIKE TO TALK TO ME ABOUT HASKELL?
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> Who hasn't, after all, in a few moments after talking about Haskell
>> monads, casually done something like that?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 2:46 PM, Andrew Byrne <andrew at pachakutech.com>wrote:
>>
>>> That you think anything here involves me putting my hand down /any/one's
>>> pants or that this has even been suggested, would indicate you haven't been
>>> paying attention. The "bad touch" alleged here was in the motion to
>>> unbutton the pants of a person who asked for a shot, then laid motionless
>>> face down on a table. No skin-skin contact.
>>>
>>> Bonus points for creative writing, though. Intravenous? Shameless. -dru
>>> On Jun 20, 2013 12:11 AM, "Danny O'Brien" <danny at spesh.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Man, how can this keep happening, Dru? Every time you stick your hand
>>>> down the pants of someone while ostensibly help them intravenously inject
>>>> medicine in the corner of a place that's for teaching Python, it seems like
>>>> otherwise rational people leap to all kind of grotesque misunderstandings!
>>>>
>>>> Can't a person pursue their non-creepy pursuit of entirely consensual
>>>> sexuality in a dark corner of a hackerspace without having the thought
>>>> police come along and misinterpret their defences of entirely unwarranted
>>>> semi-naked drug shooting up complaints by the person who had their pants
>>>> entered as something *grotesque*? What's our culture coming to?
>>>>
>>>> This is just like that time when the white power tattooed chap came
>>>> into the space, and people were in some way disturbed by their narrowminded
>>>> assumption that somebody who has a creed that specifically calls for the
>>>> death or expatriation of people based on their race TATTOOED ONTO THEIR
>>>> NECK might be in some way disturbing to others, or worse, might even have
>>>> some sympathy to that particular opinion.
>>>>
>>>> How do people get so prissy and close-minded that a person can't tattoo
>>>> nazi imagery onto the back of their neck, then, when asked to help out with
>>>> the shooting up of medicine in a dark corner of a place for soldering
>>>> Arduinos, can't cop a quick feel without everyone turning into all
>>>> "lah-di-dah maybe we should talk about your behaviour in a semi-serious
>>>> fashion" thought police?
>>>>
>>>> Makes you wonder who the fuck *are* these people, anyway?
>>>>
>>>> d.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 5:31 AM, Andrew Byrne <andrew at pachakutech.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'd like to note: this represents the third time in this conversation
>>>>> that my words have been grotesquely misinterpreted by normally quite
>>>>> reasonable people.
>>>>>  On Jun 19, 2013 2:58 PM, "Nicholas LoCicero" <nick.locicero at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Okay Dru, you're just trying to make everything worse for yourself
>>>>>> and then be able to blame others for why you can't come back.  We
>>>>>> understand.  And we're here to help you, Dru.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Andrew Byrne <
>>>>>> andrew at pachakutech.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Radical scene"
>>>>>>> "Extralegal venue" = us determining guilt, innocence or mediation so
>>>>>>> we can ask people to leave or not.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And yes, let's lock out people who are creepy and predatory.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let's also recognize trolls.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -dru
>>>>>>> On Jun 19, 2013 10:40 AM, "rachel lyra hospodar" <
>>>>>>> rachelyra at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "In the scene"?
>>>>>>>> "An extralegal venue"?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe this is another case of noisbridge not actually being
>>>>>>>> designed for everything. It's not a home, and it's certainly not a 'play
>>>>>>>> space'.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> While Noisebridge is not kink-un-friendly, as we try to be
>>>>>>>> welcoming to all, it is not part of sex-play community, and is in fact on
>>>>>>>> the other end of the spectrum wrt to safety. Your scene is at The Citadel,
>>>>>>>> bro, not here. Come here to solder your vibrator, not use it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The space is also not a 'venue' of any kind, legal or non. It's a
>>>>>>>> community space, and one that has long been welcoming to many flavors of
>>>>>>>> social awkwardness, as long as the awkward comes with a core of respect,
>>>>>>>> wrapped around a desire to fucking hack.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not creepy predatory bullshit, though. Nope. Don't need that,
>>>>>>>> thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> R.
>>>>>>>> On Jun 18, 2013 12:48 PM, "Andrew Byrne" <andrew at pachakutech.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'd also like to take this moment to examine this: my not
>>>>>>>>> responding in a manner suitably respectful to the plaintiff is "the problem
>>>>>>>>> people are pointing out". Because I seem to remember this was all about me
>>>>>>>>> forcing non-consensual sexual contact, not writing emails that dismiss
>>>>>>>>> people's feelings.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The take home here, for those still watching, is that there are no
>>>>>>>>> reports of me touching anyone when not asked to and that the one time I was
>>>>>>>>> asked to stop, I did--though confused b/c its a damn shot, not a
>>>>>>>>> come-on--and then sat across the room. I'll repeat that at the meeting, and
>>>>>>>>> see if anyone disagrees.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Those who /have/ known me sexually will recognize my strict
>>>>>>>>> adherence to verbal consent. I've been in the scene for a decade now and am
>>>>>>>>> quite familiar with the pleasures of consensual sex; this episode has been
>>>>>>>>> both hilarious and insulting and we need to create a better way to handle
>>>>>>>>> situations like it if we want to continue providing an extralegal venue.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -dru
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jun 18, 2013 11:52 AM, "Andrew Byrne" <andrew at pachakutech.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > I think my actions here are the result of there being no
>>>>>>>>> framework here, and an advocate (you, Liz) taking the position of moderator.
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > If this had been handled in a kangaroo court, it would have more
>>>>>>>>> civil. Don't point out my aggressive pursuit of the matter on list as "part
>>>>>>>>> of my problem"; point out the lack of advocates as necessitating such
>>>>>>>>> action, or the assumption of guilt and broken procedures as an invitation
>>>>>>>>> for abuse and fraud.
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > The Lillian matter, as seen /in detail/ here, had nothing to do
>>>>>>>>> with what you just pointed out; my aggressive response to claims of sexual
>>>>>>>>> abuse is what you seem to have a problem with.
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > That's your problem.
>>>>>>>>> > -dru
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > On Jun 18, 2013 11:17 AM, "Liz Henry" <lizhenry at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> >> My thought here is that Dru's responses are indicative of the
>>>>>>>>> problem people are pointing out.  His emails back and forth with Dante also
>>>>>>>>> are very indicative of this problem as Dante says "don't sexualize our
>>>>>>>>> interactions" and he continues doing so, while attempting to gaslight Dante
>>>>>>>>> and telling him that he(Dru) know what he wants better than Dante knows it
>>>>>>>>> . That is a very serious interpersonal problem.  Please consider it, Dru.
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> >> I would describe this pattern (to be overly generous) as
>>>>>>>>> overstepping what would commonly be thought of as a boundary socially and
>>>>>>>>> physically, and sexualizing people and situations inappropriately, even
>>>>>>>>> after they set a boundary explicitly.  Dru's emails continue that pattern
>>>>>>>>> right out in public.
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> >> Liz
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> >> On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Lillian Fleurs <
>>>>>>>>> lillian.fleurs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>> >>> @Daniel
>>>>>>>>> >>> The medication I take is hardly experimental and has been
>>>>>>>>> prescribed to me by a licensed physician. It's a common prescription given
>>>>>>>>> to anyone with an incorrect balance of hormones, including those seeking
>>>>>>>>> treatment for gender dysphoria. At the time I was homeless and the shot was
>>>>>>>>> already several days late because I was trying to find a more suitable
>>>>>>>>> location. Doing a sterile intramuscular injection in a private room in
>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge seemed far more ideal than dealing with heat flashes and
>>>>>>>>> excessive moodiness.
>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>> >>> @Dru
>>>>>>>>> >>> I'd like to add that I was sitting far away from you, looking
>>>>>>>>> down in shock from being violated. I kept trying to give you the benefit of
>>>>>>>>> the doubt, but your complete denial of what happened and your inability to
>>>>>>>>> apologize or defend your actions in a way that made sense leads me to
>>>>>>>>> believe that my assumption that you're a sexual predator and don't belong
>>>>>>>>> at Noisebridge is correct.
>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>> >>> As for advocates, anyone who's willing to stand for my side
>>>>>>>>> can email me.
>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>> >>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 5:32 PM, Daniel Kelly <
>>>>>>>>> arrays.tostring at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>> There are worse places than Noisebridge for injecting of
>>>>>>>>> experimental medications with needles.
>>>>>>>>> >>>> None immediately come to mind though.
>>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 12:46 PM, Lillian Fleurs <
>>>>>>>>> lillian.fleurs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>> You tried to unzip my pants for me, that's what initially
>>>>>>>>> made me uncomfortable. You reached around my body, putting your hands very
>>>>>>>>> near my genitals and began to unzip my pants for me. That's when I tensed
>>>>>>>>> up and asked you what the fuck you were doing. You made me far too tense
>>>>>>>>> and uncomfortable to receive a shot from you. It also wasn't until Kim came
>>>>>>>>> into the room offering you weed that you actually left. Dante was not in
>>>>>>>>> the room when it happened, it was only you and I. However Dante did see my
>>>>>>>>> fear, shock and discomfort after the incident. And it was Dante who helped
>>>>>>>>> calm me down enough to be able to receive my estrogen injection.
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>> The email I sent to Tony, which was later sent to Liz is
>>>>>>>>> word for word what happened. Below is a screenshot.
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Andrew Byrne <
>>>>>>>>> andrew at pachakutech.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> Since this is all out on the list, I feel the need to
>>>>>>>>> present my side; it is clear to me now what this is.
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> For a few weeks, Lillian had asked of I could give her one
>>>>>>>>> of her supplemental estrogen shots, and one night I was at NoiseBridge when
>>>>>>>>> Lillian asked me to give her her shot. I said sure, she climbed up, laid
>>>>>>>>> down on the table, and pulled down her jeans enough to expose her buttocks,
>>>>>>>>> I readied the injection and placed my left hand on the back of her upper
>>>>>>>>> thigh. She stiffened, and told me that she felt uncomfortable, so I
>>>>>>>>> stopped, moved away, apologized for the discomfort and then left the room.
>>>>>>>>> There was never a "what the fuck are you doing?".
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> It's pretty rich that /she/ is accusing me of cocaine use.
>>>>>>>>> It's not out of my experience, but as I have dopamine
>>>>>>>>> insensitivity--ADD--the stuff doesn't have the pleasure response for me
>>>>>>>>> that justifies the absurd prices; that and the killing South Americans bit.
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> Unfortunately, the only other witness in the room was Dante
>>>>>>>>> I think Dante was expelled from the Tuesday meeting two weeks ago and is
>>>>>>>>> unquestionably her "other people"--Dante got angry when I sent him an email
>>>>>>>>> invitation to a 'digital feminine' salon b/c he doesn't see himself as
>>>>>>>>> feminine and started this whole process about three weeks after Lillian
>>>>>>>>> left; it was then that Lillian "unfriended" me on Fb. That only sounds
>>>>>>>>> trite until I add that she accepted my friend request after leaving SF for
>>>>>>>>> wherever she is now.
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> I'd still like to drag up the Dante incident, as there were
>>>>>>>>> several witnesses on my side and a documented willful misrepresentation to
>>>>>>>>> Liz on Dante's. I would like to ask Liz now to retain copies of her emails
>>>>>>>>> regarding this for possible subpoena.
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> A friend? No you saw me as a rube.
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> -dru
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> On Jun 17, 2013 11:06 AM, "Lillian Fleurs" <
>>>>>>>>> lillian.fleurs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Well maybe you should have thought about these things
>>>>>>>>> before you pinned me down on a table and began unzipping my pants without
>>>>>>>>> any permission at all, refusing to stop even after I froze in fear asking
>>>>>>>>> what the fuck you were doing. I was shaken after that. I used to like you
>>>>>>>>> Drew, and it took me so long to report anything because I was worried about
>>>>>>>>> hurting someone I thought was a good person. You seemed to be high on
>>>>>>>>> cocaine or something, which initially allowed me to excuse the behavior. It
>>>>>>>>> wasn't until other people made me realize this wasn't just a one off
>>>>>>>>> incident that I decided to report what had happened. I recall you making
>>>>>>>>> creepy sexual comments about others way before this incident too, so
>>>>>>>>> looking back now I don't find what happened surprising and I probably could
>>>>>>>>> have prevented being violated.
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 12:33 AM, Andrew Byrne <
>>>>>>>>> andrew at pachakutech.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I would also like to point out the assumption of my guilt
>>>>>>>>> throughout this discourse; I was told I was considered a sexual predator by
>>>>>>>>> the anarcho-fem community a week before being contacted officially, and
>>>>>>>>> this hateful trope has been driving me away from the space since. It will
>>>>>>>>> doubtless screw with my social life for another few months and affects me
>>>>>>>>> professionally; I can't even get a response from Mozilla's bug network now,
>>>>>>>>> thanks to this. I know, hard to empathize with someone the mediator is
>>>>>>>>> calling out, but once this is cleared up, I'd like this experience well
>>>>>>>>> documented -dru
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jun 16, 2013 9:29 PM, "Liz Henry" <lizhenry at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would also like for this to be discussed again in a
>>>>>>>>> meeting. I brought this up at the meeting not last week but the week
>>>>>>>>> before. But, I have not been in the greatest of health and have missed a
>>>>>>>>> lot of meetings.
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It was also brought to my attention that Jesse Z. wants
>>>>>>>>> to come back to Noisebridge.   I do not think this is a good idea.
>>>>>>>>> Basically, I don't want to be around people who have behaved in the ways
>>>>>>>>> that either Jesse and Dru have behaved.
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> There are so many good things about Noisebridge, and
>>>>>>>>> about its openness.  To keep that good for as many people as possible we do
>>>>>>>>> need to have good boundaries.  And ask people who have shown great
>>>>>>>>> disrespect for others by non consensual behavior to stay away and work out
>>>>>>>>> their issues to learn better behavior in some other context, rather than
>>>>>>>>> being in the middle of an space without much in the way of rules or
>>>>>>>>> safety.  Sexual assault and other violent behavior destroys our ability to
>>>>>>>>> trust each other. I want to be able to trust people at NB, and to be able
>>>>>>>>> to tell others they are likely relatively safe there.
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Liz
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 8:41 PM, Lillian Fleurs <
>>>>>>>>> lillian.fleurs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> A member of the community known as Andrew "Dru" Byrne
>>>>>>>>> has yet to be kicked out of the community. Right before I moved he did some
>>>>>>>>> EXTREMELY inappropriate and non consensual things to me that extend far
>>>>>>>>> beyond creepy. I sent some emails to Tony "LeTigre", who then forwarded
>>>>>>>>> them to Liz. I had asked both of them to keep what had happened to me
>>>>>>>>> anonymous. I'm coming out of anonymity because it appears nothing has been
>>>>>>>>> done to get rid of someone who poses a high threat to other members of the
>>>>>>>>> community (both male and female, trans and cis).
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately since I no longer live in San Francisco,
>>>>>>>>> I can not show up to a Noisebridge meeting but I would like this issue
>>>>>>>>> brought up, because others who still use the space have expressed to me
>>>>>>>>> that they don't feel safe around Andrew either.
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm sorry for the drama, but I'm not the one who
>>>>>>>>> started it.
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Liz Henry
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> lhenry at mozilla.com
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> lizhenry at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>> >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> >> --
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> >> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
>>>>>>>>> >> Liz Henry
>>>>>>>>> >> lhenry at mozilla.com
>>>>>>>>> >> lizhenry at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
>
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