[Noisebridge-discuss] Get the F Out!

jim jim at systemateka.com
Sat Mar 16 17:51:36 UTC 2013

    Thanks lots for the explanation. Please do that 
    Reminds me of discussions of sugar: some organic, 
health-minded personage decided to investigate the 
evils of sugar, went to a processing plant, and 
reported that there was no danger in sugar, not as 
far as contaminants: the process created something 
unnaturally, almost supernaturally pure. 

On Sat, 2013-03-16 at 10:30 -0700, Sean Cusack wrote:
> I like chemistry things (and used to do it for a living), so I checked
> all this out! What can I say, I get intrigued!
> Quick background to bring non chemistry lovers up to speed. FlourINE
> is an element, but you can't find any hanging around in its natural
> form as FlourINE. Instead, it comes bundled up with other atoms, then
> dissociates into the FlourIDE anion. Basically, what I'm trying to say
> is that you can't buy a bucket of Flouride and dump it into
> something....it has to come from somewhere.
> From what I can tell, the website is *really* protesting the use of
> Fluoride from an HFS source instead of the (naturally occurring) CaF
> source. Since HFS is a byproduct of other industrial processes, it is
> claimed that it is "hazardous waste" on the site. Just because it is a
> byproduct doesn't mean its waste. Its industry's version of material
> recycling. The people that make this HFS as a byproduct have to clean
> it up to sell it just like it was any other chemical, or else no one
> would purchase it.
> Secondly, HFS is an attractive flourine source since it has *6*
> flourines per molecule. The naturally occurring version only has 2.
> More flourines per molecule, the less you need to buy to get the dose
> you want, so its cheaper. What about safety? The leftover silicon will
> probably bond with some oxygen running around to form good old SiO2 -
> which is sand. Like, the stuff on the beach.
> Lastly is the dose. I don't know what the dose of flouride in water
> is. However, it is known that a dose of 70mg F / 1 kg body mass would
> kill half the people that took it. If we assume even a 3kg newborn,
> that would be a 210mg F- dose. HFS has a sour odor, and fumes if it is
> in too high of a concentration. If we assume we'd be able to smell 1
> part in 10,000 flouride (*very conservative*. We can smell parts per
> million of sulfur compounds), that means concentration in the water
> supply is 0.1mg / gram water or less. At 0.1mg/g conc, a newborn baby
> would have to drink 2100g = 2100mL or about 4 pint glasses full of
> water to get this dose in a day. Not impossible, but near impossible.
> Anyways, those are my $0.02.
> Sean
> On Mar 13, 2013 4:16 PM, "Garrett Smith" <dhtmlkitchen at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>         Event:
>         March 22, 3pm, Union Square,
>         About the drug Fluoride being added to our water supply,
>         ostensibly to
>         prevent tooth decay (dubious).
>         Fluoride is not a nutrient, is toxic at the cellular level.
>         Fluoride from water accumulates in processed foods and
>         beverages and
>         from cooking. For example pasta, oats, wheat berries will all
>         absorb
>         water from fluoride. Other sources of fluoride include tea,
>         dental
>         products, pesticides, PFOA (non-stick) pans, pharmaceuticals,
>         processed meats, and produce (from "cryolite" which is sodium
>         aluminum
>         fluoride, and from fluoridated water used in crop irrigation).
>         Fluoride is synergistic with aluminum (a vaccine excipient),
>         reducing
>         IQ starting at an early age.
>         Flyers with more info:
>         http://www.fluorideout.org/
>         Can I print some out at NB? And if not, if someone would do so
>         for me,
>         I will put them around. I need about 25.
>         More info on F: @NoFluorideSF, @FluorideAlert,
>         @DAVIDKENNEDYDDS, @intooth
>         --
>         Garrett
>         Twitter: @xkit
>         personx.tumblr.com
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