[Noisebridge-discuss] On Asking People To Leave (Was Re: Shawn L. )

[maestro]

quoting:


>What you mean here, Maestro, is that *you* were asked to leave,

* what does it matter whom it was, i intentionally didn't use anyone's name
to refer to it in a broad sense of the space without individual agenda(s).
so you begin a huge inaccurate diatribe that follows in attempt(s) to
project your personal judgement(s) of me into the entire space.

*i usually wouldn't respond to any of it as it just validates you and your
silly games (not to mention your sheer love of attempting and encouraging
confrontation between people sans facts and reality so you can fill
meetings with drama) but there are some details that warrant
clarification...

>because you were sitting in the middle of a packed Third Monday
>Technoactivism event I was hosting

* total, utter bullshit. (and interesting you went and found which number
it was) and i showed a veteran member exactly where said SMALL table was in
the BACK corner(where anyone was welcome to join me and did and part of it
was used for people to write and share info) removed from the main space
and exactly what happened to which they shook their head in sudo-disgust as
to why anyone would even say anything to me...
*not to mention some of us were at the meeting ON TIME and set up our
laptops and don't need to accomodate stragglers that like to come
'whenever' and make everyone adjust to them (a lot after the 1st half of
the meeting).
>and we were clearing out tables so
>that more people could sit comfortably and it ended up with many people
>helping to clear out the tables except for the table you were sitting
>at

* so?

>because you refused to let anyone take it away from you

* you bet. when a douche comes up and rudely says "i'm taking this table"
when someone is sitting there with their laptop open, headphones on, stuff
set-up and minding their own business, you bet. and i didn't accost him i
merely said "no. you aren't. and when they began pecking like a chickenhead
i merely calmly said; "go away." and they did without any confrontation 'at
that point'...

>and you glared at everyone

* again, total and utter bullshit.


>Tom (who is kind of cranky this way)

* NB translate = n./ adj. -> douchebag/troll

>asked MCT to help deal with you and MCT asked you to leave.

* who the hell is mct and why are you using acronyms in your post rather
than stating their name(s)?

* deal with me? enough said there.

> Then
>you were EVEN MORE OUTRAGED

* i was never outraged, you have never seen me outraged. and merely said
"go away". AGAIN.

>and started asking people whether they were members

* sure did, wanted to know if it was members acting this unexcellent.


>Then you asked me to come over and mediate, and lo I did sorely roll my
>eyes, because you were actually pulling this tantrum right in the middle
>of my meeting,

*what color is the sky on your world? a tantrum? your recounting would be
great to use @ law schools teaching them how to shred you on the stand

>and you were sat there with the only table like it was a
liferaft

* NB translate = trolls "look, that dude is way too comfortable and quiet,
let's go fuck with him and try to make him uncomfortable; then make him out
to be a monster because he's big and ugly; try to get him to react
negatively then we can make a scene and satiate our attention whore
addiction(s)

>and somehow I was supposed to sympathise with you

* i could care not for your sympathy, YOU were called over simply because
YOU seemed to be organizing (though it was very disorganized) the event and
had posted about it prior. you neglect to mention that you were confused
about where to even have it until i sent a post to YOUR thread suggesting
church. again; color/sky/world

> andI was like "well, actually Maestro, maybe you *should* leave"

* that was hilarious. again; color/sky/world


>and at thispoint you pulled the BUT THIS IS ANARCHY and started shouting
and
>denying that you were shouting and so on and so forth.

* man, you make up more shit than fertilizer companies can distribute.


 >I mean, we can
>take this to the high papal court

* i'd say what the fuck are you talking about (ah. too late) but that's the
general theme of your diatribe.
* the high papal court? 1. i think you need to stop getting high but that's
not for me to... 2. there is no pope and FUCK the popes and all their child
molesting minions.

>but I just thought, oh man Maestro, he sure knows how to write write his
>emails like Bash comments, but boy he is sometimes a dick so let's leave
>him there.

* again. color/sky/.world. you don't even know me stop acting like you do.
what an unexcellent statement.

>And Tom was super-outraged, and we talked about it a meeting

*WEAHHHH. sniff sniff sniff. WEAHHH....

* again. erronious details. the event was brought up, people rolled their
eyes, groaned at him (as i am told so many do on a constant basis all
around the space) shook their heads and quickly tossed it aside as
rediculous and stupid as quoted to me by one that was in attendance...

>but ultimately I think we just put it down to you being a
>grumpy fucker.

* i love that my happiness, patience, and calm defend me from your
confusion, sadness, and anger


9. So this one is kind of funny, because at the risk of working purely
off inaccurate hearsay, the big thing some people say about you Maestro
is that when you want people to do things, you pretend to call *me* on
your phone and then say okay I am talking to Danny who is an Important
Member, and he says to do THIS.

* i thought that's all you do is 'work' off pure inaccuracy to cause
conflict(s)
* ROFLMFAO (x73) i pretend to call YOU??? then say that? who the fuck are
smoking crack with?
* REHAB, seriously.
* why don't say who made this shit up?
* who the fuck walks around pretending to call anyone, let alone YOU???
* i've never called you in my life and don't consider you an important
member.
* why are you hiding whose saying this utter bullshit?


>And it is a bit embarassing

* you embarass yourself this is true

>because the first time you did this

*1st time? more times? ah. no times.


>obviously Reverend Mik later asked me if I had really said to you
>Maestro that the Reverend Mik should throw everyone out of Turing except
you

* what the fuck? who the fuck is reverend mik and why is he/she saying i
ever said this?

* again. COLOR/SKY/WORLD

>And after that, just FYI, people know that you don't even dial a number
>on your phone and see you holding it to you head like you're talking to
>someone and they just roll their eyes some more.

* yes danny, i bring my hasbro phone to the space and play barbie
bootycall...
* "people" know? who are these "people" danny?, are they there more when
you're off your meds?
* are they living in your beard?
* do they have NAMES?


>It turns out that
>actually we do talk to each other about your crazy antics.

* you must be really BORED and LONELY.

>Your modus operandi

* don't try latin, it makes you more shallow

>seems to be when somebody asks you to do something
>is to be OUTRAGED and then claim that somebody needs to be in authority
>to tell you to do that

* there are no 'authorities' @ NB
* i've never been outraged @ NB

>you claim that
>nobody is in authority, and therefore nobody can tell you do anything.

* there are no 'authorities" @ NB

>And occasionaly you pretend to phone people who you think might be the
>Chief Anarchists, or something.

* wow. again with the pretend phone call bullshit. meds, meds, meds
* let's have whomever is saying this named and then asked "what the fuck
are you talking about troll?"

AGAIN. color/sky/world


well, wow,  if i was an attention whore i would be saturated in my own cum
by now...

thankfully, i digress to my place of serenity and synchronization with the
knowledge that:
1. there are beings that are VERY bored, lonely, and sad...
2. there are many reading this whom i have shared it with laughing their
asses off in tears...
3. hopefully all that have invented in their minds i am grumpy fucker will
keep to these thought(s) so it keeps you the fuck away from me and the
others that come to the space to do positive shit and live in peaceful
anarchy wherever WE are...


again quoting an excellent veteran member:
>
> >with respect to the hope that such discussion would
> >tend to educate the community that
> >* members have no privileges over non-members
> >* we each must treat all others excellently
> >* there are no sanctioned activities that trump other activities
> >* that a group of people place demands on others is unacceptable
> >  in this doocratic, consensus-oriented community.


On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 8:23 PM, Danny O'Brien <danny at spesh.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 08, 2013 at 03:34:44PM -0800, maestro wrote:
> > ^ +1 justin...
> >
> > ^  1st off, a blanket vague e-mail to the discuss list asking people
> (who were
> > not involved in whatever this is) to accost someone in the space and try
> and
> > tell them to leave without any documentation of an incident <in the
> space> or
> > what the fuck it's about composed by someone who by appearances wasn't
> even
> > involved in an incident with the subject(person) of the mail???
> >
>
> Soooo I'm not actually requiring or ordering anyone to do this. If you
> don't want to do it, that's fine. I realise that doing it without
> knowing any background is kind of weird, but I'm happy to discuss it
> with anyone in person, and I'm okay with you thinking it is all kind of
> weird.
>
> To clarify, one of the reasons why the Noisebridge tradition has emerged
> over the last few years of asking people to leave and come back at
> meeting is to defuse immediate situations. It doesn't mean anything more
> than some matter has arisen that the people involved feel uncomfortable
> handling on their own, and would rather discuss it with the wider
> community.
>
> It's not intended as a punishment. Indeed, if one feels outraged that
> one will have to spend a maximum of seven days not at Noisebridge, I do
> rather think one is probably making Noisebridge too much of your life,
> and need a break anyway.
>
> I also strongly believe the following points represent a consensus
> position at this point, although it isn't the sort of thing that we put
> through official consensus, it's definitely something that fits with
> what most of us do when we're doacratically handling these situations.
>
> 1. If you're in an argument with somebody that seems irresolvable and
> looks like it's escalating, you or they should ask the other to leave
> and come back to meeting. It's okay for both sides to do that, because
> that gets the confrontation out of the space, and gives time for people
> to calm down.
>
> 2. It's considered excellent to leave and come to the meeting. It counts
> in your favor.
>
> 3. Not leaving isn't excellent, because at that point at least one
> person is stuck in an immediately intractable problem.
>
> 4. Neither is it excellent to leave, and coming back before meeting. Nor
> should thou take over an hour leaving and then hover around the gate,
> very slowly picking up your laptop pieces, like with Junior that last
> time.
>
> 5. It's almost certainly not excellent, incidentally, to try and game
> this by just repeatedly asking people to leave and come back at the next
> meeting, and then like two minutes after the meeting, ask them to leave
> and come back to the next meeting, etc. There are many other exploits like
> this that you can think of. Almost all of them fall under another
> widely-held hackerspace axiom, "don't be a dick", and won't get you any
> credit when you come to the meeting with a big grin on your face.
> Indeed, you may find that the person who did the asking to leave will be
> in far bigger disgrace than the person who left. This happens. A lot.
>
> 5. If you feel ABSOLUTELY outraged about being kicked out, come back at
> meeting, and almost certainly other people will feel ABSOLUTELY OUTRAGED
> on your behalf, or perhaps roll their eyes at what happened. It is a
> good way to see how the rest of the community feels. It is very unlikely
> that if you are asked to leave for a dumb reason that the rest of the
> meeting will sympathise with the person telling you to leave. If they
> do, perhaps your OUTRAGE was misplaced.
>
> 6. And yes you are part of a community, and your big "nobody tells *me*
> what to do" isn't actually the anarchism we practice here. Otherwise you
> could just turn the place into a satanic ice cream parlor and everyone
> would be like woooo anarchy, which they would not. Well, maybe at first,
> but then they would be like why are these arduinos vanilla flavored and
> melting, and the crying would begin.
>
> So that is what I think is our broad consensus. Now to go into more details
> of your specific complaints:
>
> /* *********************************************************************
>
> > ^ and by someone whom isn't in charge of anyone or anything?
> >
> > ^ wot?
> >
> > ^ so; now in just the last month,
> > a) people have been harassed and told the police would be called on them
> whom
> > were minding their own business and participating positively in an event
> at NB.
> >
>
> A. What you mean here, Maestro, is that *you* were asked to leave,
> because you were sitting in the middle of a packed Third Monday
> Technoactivism event I was hosting, and we were clearing out tables so
> that more people could sit comfortably and it ended up with many people
> helping to clear out the tables except for the table you were sitting
> at, because you refused to let anyone take it away from you, and you
> glared at everyone, until eventually Tom (who is kind of cranky this
> way) asked MCT to help deal with you, and MCT asked you to leave. Then
> you were EVEN MORE OUTRAGED and started asking people whether they were
> members, or whether their name was on the lease, like that mattered.
>
> Then you asked me to come over and mediate, and lo I did sorely roll my
> eyes, because you were actually pulling this tantrum right in the middle
> of my meeting, and you were sat there with the only table like it was a
> liferaft, and somehow I was supposed to sympathise with you, andI was
> like "well, actually Maestro, maybe you *should* leave",and at this
> point you pulled the BUT THIS IS ANARCHY and started shouting and
> denying that you were shouting and so on and so forth. I mean, we can
> take this to the high papal court and everything like Tom always wants
> to, but I just thought, oh man Maestro, he sure knows how to write write
> his
> emails like Bash comments, but boy he is sometimes a dick so let's leave
> him there. And Tom was super-outraged, and we talked about it at
> meeting, but ultimately I think we just put it down to you being a
> grumpy fucker.
>
> > b) someone else asked people to summon another person to a meeting to be
> asked
> > to leave the space permanently WITHOUT said requester even attending the
> > meeting,
>
> B. Don't really know about this. It sometimes happens. The consequences
> of such a travesty of justice that everyone rolls their eyes at meeting
> and goes, sorry about that, X is kind of crazy. Where X is either the
> person doing the summoning, or the crazy person being asked to leave. It
> is usually down to craziness.
>
> >
> > c) people have been going around the space whom are in charge of NOTHING
> > 'trying' to tell people what to do.
>
> 9. So this one is kind of funny, because at the risk of working purely
> off inaccurate hearsay, the big thing some people say about you Maestro
> is that when you want people to do things, you pretend to call *me* on
> your phone and then say okay I am talking to Danny who is an Important
> Member, and he says to do THIS.
>
> And it is a bit embarassing because the first time you did this,
> obviously Reverend Mik later asked me if I had really said to you
> Maestro that the Reverend Mik should throw everyone out of Turing except
> you, and I said, no I don't even think Maestro has my number, how weird.
>
> And after that, just FYI, people know that you don't even dial a number
> on your phone and see you holding it to you head like you're talking to
> someone and they just roll their eyes some more. It turns out that
> actually we do talk to each other about your crazy antics.
>
> Your modus operandi seems to be when somebody asks you to do something
> is to be OUTRAGED and then claim that somebody needs to be in authority
> to tell you to do that, and then when that doesn't work, you claim that
> nobody is in authority, and therefore nobody can tell you do anything.
> And occasionaly you pretend to phone people who you think might be the
> Chief Anarchists, or something.
>
> Whereas the truth is, it just isn't true that nobody is in charge at
> Noisebridge. *Everybody* is in charge at Noisebridge, and if you're not
> stepping up, and you're not listening to others and being courteous to
> their needs, and you're just declaiming, chances are you're being
> unexcellent. And usually that's okay, but sometimes it makes people so
> mad that they ask you to leave. And lo, we all roll our eyes.
>
> Anyway, this is all by-the-by, because we actually have a serious issue
> here with court cases and incidents of harassment at the space and so
> on, all of which is a little unclear at this point, but honestly growing
> clearer every day. I am happy to talk to you about it at the meeting,
> but I doubt it will really get much clearer before then, and certainly
> not via a mailing list.
>
> I do love you, you big grumpy fucker,
>
> message ends
>
> d.
>
> ********************************************************************** */
>
> >
> > ^ most UNEXCELLENT.
> >
> > ^ no idea what the incident is/was (if any) but this is being handled
> poorly.
> >
> >
> > note:
> > anyone that may be new to the space or a vet just mis-informed or
> confused,
> > PLEASE ask more than one person in the space about something you want to
> know
> > and remember NB is an open community and your voice is just as important
> as any
> > other.
> >
> > quoting an excellent veteran member from another incident:
> >
> > >with respect to the hope that such discussion would
> > >tend to educate the community that
> > >* members have no privileges over non-members
> > >* we each must treat all others excellently
> > >* there are no sanctioned activities that trump other activities
> > >* that a group of people place demands on others is unacceptable
> > >  in this doocratic, consensus-oriented community.
> >
> >
> > message ends
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 11:24 PM, Danny O'Brien <danny at spesh.com> wrote:
> >
> >     So could anyone who sees Shawn L. (picture here:
> >     https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/File:User_shawnl.jpg  ) ask him to
> >     leave the space, and come to the next Noisebridge meeting? Preferably
> >     a little bit earlier than 8PM, maybe 7PM, so we can speak before the
> >     meeting?
> >
> >     If Shawn doesn't leave or has any questions, I'm emailable at
> >     danny at spesh.com.. Feel free to tell him I can meet up and discuss
> the
> >     matter with him.
> >
> >     d.
> >     _______________________________________________
> >     Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >     Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >     https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > ~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...
> >
>



-- 

*~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...*
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