[Noisebridge-discuss] anti-anonymity proposals

jim jim at systemateka.com
Sat Nov 16 04:24:12 UTC 2013

JS: my replies interspersed below 

On Fri, 2013-11-15 at 14:29 -0800, Snail wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 11:13 AM, jim <jim at systemateka.com> wrote:
>             As to females being harassed, for cases of
>         crude coppings of feels, I dislike taht female
>         turning to the community for support; I would
>         eagerly defend any female who hauled off and
>         slugged whoever copped a feel or to go get some
>         friends and return to verbally educate the
>         offender: it's dis-empowering to perceive one's
>         self as a victim and turn to a community for
>         support for what is an individual incident.
> Whoa - whoa whoa whoa - whoaaaaa...
> Time out - did you really just say that women who get groped ("cases
> of crude coppings of feels") should not ask the community to help them
> out? And you believe that it's disempowering somehow??
JS: You've got it correctly. That is my belief. To 
run to a community (in the formal sense) is weakening. 
To run to other people who are supportive is good 
and strengthening. I.e., having a No Harassment 
policy is toxic. 
> And that people should just punch people or deal with it on their own?
> Is this really what you're suggesting?
JS: No, my meaning is that I will eagerly defend (support) 
anyone (for the example, female) who slugged another who 
had behaved egregiously and physically. 

>             There will be no way fully to suppress such
>         actions taken by horney and inconsiderate
>         personages, policies and rules and committee
>         resolutions aside (far, far aside, I hope).

> I can't even. Here's a good way to suppress the actions of "horney" or
> inconsiderate people: never let them back in Noisebridge because
> that's a terrible excuse for their actions!
JS: I probably don't agree, but it's a case-by-case 
issue. It seems best to educate and accept and invite, 
as a general rule. Certainly there are some who are 
too disruptive to have around, but case by case.... 
>             Please ask yourself if you are prone to
>         express yourself when you believe you have the
>         "high ground" and can properly scold others. I.e.,
>         are you living too much with anger?

> With the rage of a thousand burning stars. 
> TO EVERYONE ELSE READING THIS - There are lots of people in the
> community at large who will help you out if someone is creeping on you
> or worse, whether you are "taht females" or just a plain ol' human
> being! 
Exactly right! 

> Don't let what Jim says dissuade you from reporting harassment or
> assault or pointing out creepers! 
"Reporting" sucks and is toxic. Deal with it yourself, 
you and others who support you, but not the community 
as the term is used--do not bring a single incident up 
at meetings or report it to some harassment nazis; do 
ask others for help and do confront the inconsiderate 
one, regardless of the particular action. 

> This is not an opinion everyone here carries. 

> Please don't ever feel like it's your fault or that you're required to
> punch people - 
no one recommended punching, you'll note. I will 
gladly defend those who defend themselves. 

> it's a valid and rational response to remove yourself from a dangerous
> situation and try to sort things out later from a safe place rather
> than confront your harasser/assaulter. 

> If someone is creeping on you, they are pretty much always creeping on
> OTHERS, too, 
The above is presumptive and not necessarily true. 

> so you are not alone or stuck in some isolated personal incident! And
> as a community we can try to make Noisebridge a safer place for
> everyone.
absolutely right! 
> Also, women really appreciate being called women and not "females". Do
> you go around saying "the males" when referring to men? Probably not.
My first preferences are "boys" and "girls", then "guys" 
and "gals" and "males" and "females". I dislike the terms 
"men" and "women" because I think those terms bring along 
a lot of toxic baggage. 

> Angry forever,
too bad; try to change that so you don't grow up to be bitter. 

> Snail
> -- 
> -Snailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnails
> ............. _ at y
> http://obamaischeckingyouremail.tumblr.com/

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