[Noisebridge-discuss] The Nuclear Option

Thu Nov 21 19:47:38 UTC 2013

Tom, I think there has been a misunderstanding. I have put an exact
transcript of our discussion below. I believe I can paraphrase it properly
with this:

Lee: [edits Membership page]
Tom: [Rolls back edit]
Lee: Hey, why did you roll that back?
Tom: Your edit wasn't part of consensus. Only typos should be edited
Lee: Sorry. I'll only edit typos [edits a typo,
here<https://noisebridge.net/index.php?title=Membership&diff=35805&oldid=35781>
]
Tom: [removes Lee's bureaucrat and administrator rights, says nothing and
does not roll back Lee's typo edit]
Lee: Ha ha, very funny.
Tom: [No response]
Lee: Hey, what's up?
Tom: [No response]
Lee: Seriously, what's up?
Tom: [No response]
Lee: Dude, why did you do that?
Tom: [No response]
Lee: [To NB-D] Hey, where did Tom go?
Tom: [responds...]
....

Tom, your actions seem very heavy handed which is compounded by your
resistance to communicate. I continue to act in a reputable and honorable
way. I expect the same in return. I would appreciate it if you restored my
bureaucrat and administrator rights on the wiki. I'm sure there was just a
little miscommunication here, typing doesn't convey content as well as
speech does. I'll be sure to try and find you and say hello the next time
I'm in the space.

>Was it also you (IP 71.135.45.119) who edited the anti-harassment policy
page?
No.

Here is the exact text of the discussion we had: (I'm in blue, Tom is in
purple)

Lee Nov 14 7:38pm
I see that you undid all my edits here [
https://noisebridge.net/index.php?title=Membership&diff=next&oldid=35778]
without any comments. Can you say why you rolled them all back? I'm pretty
sure that all of my changes are in-keeping with the ongoing consensus
discussion. I'm happy to discuss each potential change.
--[[User:Gadlen|gadlen]] ([[User talk:Gadlen|talk]]) 03:19, 15 November
2013 (UTC)

-
Update: I see in this edit [
https://noisebridge.net/index.php?title=Category:Associate_Members&diff=prev&oldid=35782]
you commented "You need to add the tag". It doesn't seem correct that
adding a tag to a page makes you an associate member. However, being an
associate member does let you legitimately add the tag.
--[[User:Gadlen|gadlen]] ([[User talk:Gadlen|talk]]) 03:32, 15 November
2013 (UTC)

--------------------------------------------------

Tom Nov 14 7:53pm:
First of all, don't edit the membership page: it's changed by
consensus only. When we agreed the last change to the membership
system, I was left with the task of writing it up our conclusions and
and adding them to the page. There should be no other time when that
page is changed, except possibly when you find a typo.

The substance of you edits was also incorrect in both cases. It is not
possible to become an associate member using a paper form. It can only
be done on the wiki. In addition, the category is an integral part of
the process. You only become an associate member when you add your
page to the category, and you must add yourself to the category to
become an associate member. Both of these were specifically agreed at
the 2013-11-05 meeting.

--------------------------------------------------

Lee Nov 14 8:40pm
Sorry, I missed reading the meeting notes from 11-5-13.

It seemed odd that the same person that was making lots of large changes
was the person who also wrote "don't change anything!" so I just pressed
on. In the future it would be very helpful if you leave a comment on your
edit, especially drastic ones like rollbacks.

There are some typos on the page so I'll go ahead and fix them and then
watch how it all plays out.

--------------------------------------------------
Lee received an email from the Noisebridge wiki with a subject "Noisebridge
page User:Gadlen has been created by Flamsmark". Lee assumed (incorrectly
in retrospect. Actually his privileges had been changed) that Flamsmark had
deleted and recreated his account)
--------------------------------------------------

Lee Nov 14 10:49pm
Technically speaking, am I undead?

--------------------------------------------------
No response from Tom

--------------------------------------------------
Lee Nov 15 10:49pm (Lee assumed that Tom had protected the Membership page)
The Membership page still has plenty of typos. The page hasn't ever been
vandalized and even if it were, you know where the Rollback button is. Can
you please remove the protection from it?

--------------------------------------------------
No response from Tom

--------------------------------------------------
Lee Nov 17 3:24pm
Asking again:
On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 10:49 PM, Lee Sonko <lee at lee.org> wrote:

> The Membership page still has plenty of typos. The page hasn't ever been
> vandalized and even if it were, you know where the Rollback button is. Can
> you please remove the protection from it?
>

--------------------------------------------------
No response from Tom

--------------------------------------------------
Lee Nov 19 12:22pm
Tom, why did you remove my
<https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Special:Log/rights>bureaucrat
and administrator rights <https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Special:Log/rights> on
the Noisebridge wiki and stop answering my emails?
--------------------------------------------------
No response from Tom

--------------------------------------------------
Lee Nov 20 2:49pm
(Lee posted to NB-D about Tom not responding to emails)
I've been having a conversation with Tom Lowenthal about NB over the last
week or so. He asked me to communicate with him directly via email instead
of publicly on the
wiki<https://noisebridge.net/index.php?title=User_talk%3AFlamsmark&diff=35796&oldid=35795>.
I'm happy to do so but he stopped replying a couple days back. So I'll ask
here on NB-D. There were other emails he didn't respond to but getting a
response to this one is a good start.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Lee Sonko <lee at lee.org>
Date: Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 12:22 PM
Subject: The Nuclear Option
To: me at tomlowenthal.com
Tom, why did you remove my
<https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Special:Log/rights>bureaucrat
and administrator rights <https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Special:Log/rights> on
the Noisebridge wiki and stop answering my emails?

--------------------------------------------------
End of transcript

On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 5:11 PM, Tom Lowenthal <me at tomlowenthal.com> wrote:

> Lee Sonko <lee at lee.org> wrote:
> > Tom, why did you remove my bureaucrat and administrator rights on the
> > Noisebridge wiki and stop answering my emails?
>
> Lee, I removed your admin privileges to stop you from continuing to
> edit the protected page describing our membership process.
>
> You edited the membership page, adding incorrect information, ignoring
> the notice that the page should only be edited as the result of a
> consensus discussion. When I rolled back your changes and asked you to
> stop, you admitted that you weren't at the consensus discussion,
> hadn't actually read any notes about it, and were just adding
> information that you thought was similar to what had been discussed.
> Then you edited the page again, so I removed your admin privileges.
>
> Was it also you (IP 71.135.45.119) who edited the anti-harassment
> policy page? Perhaps it was someone else. In any event, if
> 71.135.45.119 is reading: the text on that page is *also* the result
> of a consensus process, and should not be edited. In fact, the page
> has a banner across the top letting readers know about the policy's
> trial period, and how to contribute on Github, which is where we
> agreed to work on changes.
>
> -Tom
> _______________________________________________
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
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