[Noisebridge-discuss] Girls Hack

Hannah Grimm dharlette at gmail.com
Tue Oct 29 19:54:52 UTC 2013

I don't think Danny's saying men can't be feminists (or at the very least,
feminist allies), he's just saying that people shouldn't use the "I can't
have said something sexist, I'm totally a feminist!" card.  I'm a die-hard
feminist, and I catch myself thinking/saying sexist bullshit *constantly*.
 I mess up all the time when it comes to using people's preferred pronouns!
 It turns out that when you're raised in a sexist, transphobic society,
it's really, really hard to overcome your conditioning.  It doesn't make
you a terrible person, it's just important that when you make a mistake and
someone calls you out on it, you apologize and try to correct your behavior.

No one's saying adolescent girls can't come to NB, they obviously can and
do.  If anyone tried to turn someone away at the door for being a girl, you
can bet that that bullshit *would not stand. *When I said I didn't think it
was a good idea to bring them there, what I meant was that I'm not sure it
would be a good experience for them (because they might be harassed or
witness harassment in the space, which could turn them off coding), and
that they might have a better experience somewhere else.  If there's
someone who is willing to take on the responsibility of making sure that it
is a positive, excellent experience for those girls, then that changes
things completely.

On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Becoming Shae <shae.maile at gmail.com>wrote:

> I'm new here and have been warming up to connecting at the space but I
> agree with points Elizabeth brings up and have seen this play out in
> countless other radical spaces.
> This may be why projects like Trans*H4CK are utilizing Double Union for
> tech talks which have already sold out 150 tix after their open hack night
> in the Mozilla space last week. I'm not the organizer for it so I can't say
> conclusively but it may be something to consider about who feels safe in
> your space and who doesn't and are you engaging those who need the space
> the most when you act in these ways?
> Discouraging men from being feminists and discouraging adolescent young
> women from coming out for their own safety, kicking out ppl perceived as
> homeless?! wow, I might hold off dropping by. Why not address the
> safety/community concerns so you have an inclusive space?
> Wishing you all the best and remember you're not the only space that's
> addressed this and made positive structural changes.
> -shae
> On Oct 29, 2013 10:30 AM, "Elizabeth Hubbard" <annie.nutt at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>> I think that's a great idea, Hilaire.  And, I'm willing to spend my own
>> money to mass order some very loud whistles for the girls as predator
>> deterrent and to show up and chaperone.  I don't mean to brag, but I'd be
>> very surprised if there was anybody at Noisebridge who could neutralize a
>> threat as efficiently as I could.  I don't want to scare anybody, so I
>> won't go into details about what an awesome martial artist I am.  (Any
>> other volunteers for chaperones?)
>> Also, Danny, why are you discouraging men from being feminists by saying
>> that makes them creepy?  I am a die-hard feminist since birth, and I like
>> Johnny Radio after a year of knowing him, because he's also very obviously
>> a feminist.  I knew that even without him ever having mentioned to me that
>> he was working to break the glass ceiling for young women.  (Either that or
>> I should listen harder when he's talking.)
>> There are kids at Noisebridge often.  Saying that adolescent girls can't
>> go there for their own safety is kind of like the whole burqa situation in
>> the middle east, where women can't show their faces for fear that they
>> would get raped.  (And rape still happens over there.)  Malala in Pakistan
>> got shot in the face for going to school and encouraging other girls to go
>> to school, and did she shut up?  No, because she's a bad-ass who believes
>> in education for everybody and isn't even scared after being shot in the
>> face.  I don't personally know Malala, but I am willing to bet 5 dollars
>> that she would agree with me that adolescent girls should not be
>> discriminated against when it comes to access to Noisebridge.
>> Also, stop bullying Johnny Radio, whoever all is doing it.  So he said
>> something insensitive, whoopty doo.  He said it about a wiki page.  And he
>> didn't even say he'd be the one doing it.  And if somebody posted
>> pornography on your wikipedia page, what would you say about it?  Exactly
>> what Johnny Radio was trying to warn about, that's what.  People can really
>> mess up your website if it's a wiki page and someone doesn't catch it. And
>> a lot of Noisebridgers have made some very insensitive comments about all
>> sorts of things around me, and you don't see me trying to imply anything
>> dark and cynical about them.  Johnny Radio is an excellent person, and our
>> community shouldn't scare him away, the way it's done to so many other
>> people.
>> One guy got kicked out because somebody thought he was homeless and
>> staying there too often.  He wasn't homeless (not that that should matter),
>> he was just hard-working and spent a lot of time at Noisebridge hacking.
>>  His son was teaching my son physics, so I was sad to see them gone.  One
>> guy was called all sorts of mean names over a stupid argument, and he also
>> stopped showing up, and he was one of my friends.  And my project (which is
>> under way) was disparaged and called not excellent and other people were
>> told not to help with it, and the only people who wanted to help with it
>> were smart enough to e-mail me about it, rather than swim through the
>> negativity from comedy-nay-sayers on the forum.  That's sad.  By
>> comparison, New York Times bestselling author called me hilarious, very
>> professional and easy to work with, gave me 5 stars (out of 5, my current
>> score)  and a $200 dollar bonus for screenwriting I did for her.  Everybody
>> at the Writer's Digest Conference thought the show wa
>>  s a great idea, and liked the idea of recruiting actors from the
>> homeless population (actually doing something about poverty).  So why the
>> haterade?  Frankly, if you want Noisebridge to be successful like Hacker
>> Dojo (where PinInterest was created), stop haterading all over new
>> start-ups and kicking people out in territorial disputes.
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