[Noisebridge-discuss] Cooking in the space, update

Praveen Sinha dmhomee at gmail.com
Thu Apr 3 03:58:12 UTC 2014

Awww thanks!!!  I actually think the both of you are quite adorable too!

What I think will take a longer time to write up than I have at the moment.
 I'll save that for a future post.

In so far as the lease:  I really don't think it's as big as a bogeyperson
as people are worrying about.  That's not to say we should have people
living in elevator shafts...

But more than that, I do think we should be focused on building positive
consensus:  if we focus too much on rigid rules and not enough on the
people, then we just get bunch of miserable people:  as much as we wish
that legal systems could be like code and we could get it debugged and
working like a machine, it's just not that way.  We are people not machines.

On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Will Sargent <will.sargent at gmail.com> wrote:

> It's pretty clear that Praveen either doesn't care or can't conceive of
> any repercussions to Noisebridge as a result of his actions.
> People doing drugs at the space?  Fine.
> People offering drugs at the space?  Also fine.
> People sleeping at the space?  Not just fine, Praveen will actually give
> you an invitation.
> The idea that Noisebridge might actually lose its lease is just not there.
>  The idea that there might be people adversely affected is not there.
>  There's not even a balancing of good versus bad there -- Praveen thinks
> it's good, everyone who thinks its bad must be wrong and unexcellent.
> Will.
> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 5:45 PM, Ceren Ercen <ceren at ercen.com> wrote:
>> "Blah blah I got caught living at the space and so i will ramble enough
>> and act confused about how this violates and endangers NB's lease, people
>> will get distracted discussing hypotheticals about a live-in docent. Blah
>> blah. "
>> Praveen, you're adorable, but no, no living at the space. The lease
>> agreement should be the end of the story. Go start another space if you
>> want a hacker space with a lease that allows for a live-in person. Good
>> luck with that.
>> For the record, I wouldn't consider someone for the position who had
>> already pointedly ignored the community rules, based solidly on the
>> agreement with the landlord that NO ONE LIVES IN THE SPACE.
>>  On Apr 2, 2014 8:16 PM, "Frantisek Apfelbeck" <algoldor at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Hi to all,
>>> Just shortly about my involvement, I'm repeating my self but well looks
>>> like the old story is being loved to come out again :-) It is not directly
>>> connected to the current cooking in the space, so skip it if you are just
>>> sorting out this issue.
>>> Tastebridge was great fun and it was more or less keeping the back of
>>> the Noisebridge (bathrooms and kitchen) operational and because I like
>>> things clean and organized it was in general taken as a positive direction.
>>> Sometimes we had a screw ups like over fermented bottles of kombucha
>>> spraying people around, some stuff not cleaned on time and fridges having
>>> out of day items. However in general it was kept well, we did catering for
>>> 5 min of fame events, member meetings, underground markets etc. promoting
>>> our activities from that and getting also part of our budget.
>>> Al's announcement that I'm moving out with my name in the subject was a
>>> good show of how not to do stuff in that time in the community, caused a
>>> lots of drama and Al was shouted at a lot. The main reason was because he
>>> did not give me time and space to talk about that, especially not with
>>> mediators or few members being present from both yes and no sides. This was
>>> really pity I think because I would definitely not endanger my position in
>>> the community with such a fopa especially when I had another options, which
>>> I had. So in another words big drama which could be sorted quite quietly.
>>> To be absolutely honest it was maybe better that it become a big issue,
>>> because I feel now much more with the people who are targeted in a similar
>>> manner for variety of actions even when things can be sorted in a
>>> reasonable way. Public mop. However again in that time, the resolution was
>>> found very quickly and I could continue with my activities without any
>>> issues, so concerning the work no harm done, for the integrity of the
>>> Noisebridge community not the best. Now after the years with keeping an eye
>>> on the activities in the space from around the world through the discuss
>>> and talking to friends I have still the feeling that the main target by Al
>>> was actually me not directly my activities, that is at least my opinion.
>>> After being active in many hackerspaces around the world I think that
>>> having separate living quarters/areas for people involved in community
>>> places is a good idea and I vote for that, really looking forward to help
>>> out the build up of by Mitch promoting hacker residency programs. If people
>>> live in their working places it gets often too intensive, they become too
>>> obsessive and if someone doesn't like someone else it is blocking the
>>> energies/flow in the place. So I'm now more for separate accommodation and
>>> living arrangements seems to me neater.
>>> This paragraph you my skip it is too long for many just quick personal
>>> explanation :-) Concerning my sleeping/living in the place, it intensified
>>> especially at the end of my stay in SF when I have found out that I have to
>>> sort out with the immigration my stay because when I entered the USA the
>>> last time they did not give me the stamp on the border and when I left the
>>> time before they did not signed me off, so it looked like that I'm in the
>>> states nearly for 2 years which is not exactly what my PhD. visa for 6
>>> months would allow. If I had to leave immediately the states I would have
>>> to train a new brewer in Three Stone Hearth Kitchen where I was a master
>>> brewer and that would be an issue, because at least month or so should be
>>> needed. So when I realized what issues I'm potentially facing I had around
>>> one week or 10 days more or less to sort that out, with possibly leaving
>>> the place immediately after. That cause way more than 16 hours working days
>>> and me staying in he place. I've stayed in the place in the months before
>>> over the night, which sometimes meant finishing up around 3 am brewing
>>> class and getting up before 7 am to leave for Berkeley to brew. However
>>> majority of the time, and that means 5-6 days per week I was happily
>>> sleeping somewhere close to the beach, in the park, out of the town, with
>>> friends couch surfing, name it. That I liked, staying at Noisebridge over
>>> the night was kind of must and I tried o avoid it both because of potential
>>> troubles and not doing me well. Believe it or not I do not like to overstep
>>> if I know that the community doesn't approve of that in general, but well
>>> in this case I did and I appologised. However as I said especially at the
>>> period when I had to sort out my issues with the immigration I was staying
>>> around more and that was not good for anyone.
>>> Well I think that would be enough for recapitulation, have a good time
>>> and I hope you manage to keep the place running nice and open, based on
>>> consensus with active community showing the direction. It was possible
>>> before, it can be done again.
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
>>> biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
>>> http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
>>> "There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
>>>    On Thursday, April 3, 2014 3:26 AM, daravinne <daravinne at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>   when i first started doing 5mof a few years ago, part of the ritual
>>> was getting there from work and taking a nap in a comfy chair before i
>>> started doing event-related stuff.
>>> frantisek was one of the first people i ever encountered at the space
>>> and his implementation of tastebridge was focused and well-run.  i didn't
>>> really see it as a problem that he was living at the space, since i noticed
>>> that after he was ejected, less productive and helpful people replaced him,
>>> and the overall cleanliness and good working order of the space declined.
>>> him being there most of the time was a great benefit to the space, because
>>> he did genuinely care about the state of the space he was using and made up
>>> his use of resources by providing the intangible service of near-constant
>>> management.  i do read all his emails, and i agree with praveen that his
>>> insights are valuable, possibly more so than other people who are currently
>>> overseas and continue to post to the list.
>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Johny Radio <johnyradio at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>  Some of the best nb hackers have slept at nb once or twice.
>>> Nb has only ITSELF to blame. When you open the door to all comers, don't
>>> be shocked at their behavior.
>>> ------ Original Message ------
>>> From: "Ceren Ercen" <ceren at ercen.com>
>>> To: "Jeffrey Carl Faden" <jeffreyatw at gmail.com>
>>> Cc: "Frantisek Apfelbeck" <algoldor at yahoo.com>; "NoiseBridge Discuss" <
>>> noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>>> Sent: 4/2/2014 8:53:41 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Cooking in the space, update
>>> Seriously.
>>> Frantisek, you covertly squatted in the NB space, and got all
>>> apology-tastic when you got caught.
>>> You should have the sense and humility to recuse yourself from all
>>> topics that are addressing the serious problem of  "how do we stop people
>>> from trying to live in the space".  Even if it's your pet "I like to
>>> ferment things" workspace.
>>> Somehow, you don't have the clue or grace to back the fuck off. So I
>>> will suggest it for you. Back away from this thread, no one read your
>>> rambling email. If you're distressed, consider that it's actions like YOURS
>>> that made it impossible for Noisebridge to have a pleasantly luxurious
>>> kitchen. Great job.
>>> - Ceren
>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 11:43 AM, Jeffrey Carl Faden <
>>> jeffreyatw at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Reminder: biotechnologist & kvasir and hacker Frantisek Algoldor
>>> Apfelbeck from Kasiri, Jeju repeatedly slept in the off-limits south
>>> stairwell at Noisebridge, so anything he has to say about proper use of
>>> facilities should be taken with a grain of salt.
>>> Jeffrey
>>>  On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 5:55 AM, Frantisek Apfelbeck <algoldor at yahoo.com
>>> > wrote:
>>>  Hi to all,
>>> Just few notes on the kitchen, I have run and helped to equip many
>>> around the world and on variety of hacker events especially in last few
>>> years under the Food Hacking Base project which the Tastebridge was a first
>>> step I would say. It is interesting to see so many hackerspaces going
>>> forward on biotech, food hacking and brewing with Noisebridge being one of
>>> the forerunners with amazing set up around 2010 and 2011 and now well ...
>>> stove - crucial. If you do not have a stove you can not cook most of the
>>> meals and brewing is an issue for many types of beverages, also you will
>>> have really problem to sterilize - pressure cooker works fine if you have
>>> one. Kitchen without stove is close to not being a kitchen, biotech
>>> applications need sterilization most of the time and heat treatment of
>>> ingredients is often crucial (and microwave is not a cure for everything).
>>> fridge - very important. To keep you perishable food ingredients,
>>> cultures and of course nice cold drinks it is more or less necessity, at
>>> least for reasonable food and beverage hacking. Kitchen without fridge is
>>> doable but quite an issue.
>>> preparation place - working bench if you like, crucial. Having some
>>> space to work on is crucial especially if you want to work fast and safe.
>>> Do not underestimate the height of the bench it hits your back if is too
>>> low or too high. This one is really important on hands on workshops.
>>> sinks - crucial. For keeping the place clean and the work flow
>>> continuous sinks and preferably running water are really a key. If you do
>>> not have it, you are in trouble. Dishwasher works too, but well sink is
>>> sink.
>>> storage - for dry ingredients especially. If you want to play around you
>>> need your ingredients and they need to stored properly. Stainless steel or
>>> glass well sealed work very well, plastic is a good cheap alternative.
>>> Insect and rats may be an issue if they get out of hand which was a case in
>>> the building many times so this one has to be kept in mind.
>>> The answer to how to keep the kitchen clean is both simple and
>>> complicated. The way which works for me and projects in which I'm involved
>>> is to get together people who enjoy playing with food, hacking, brewing,
>>> biotech and consuming&enjoying the products of their efforts and let them
>>> to organize the spot, sometimes poke them a bit if the things go out of
>>> hand. Better environment you have from the point of view of
>>> equipment/infrastructure and funds, more likely you are to form a nice and
>>> vibrant community around it and enjoy their achievements. Note as most of
>>> the things in community the social interactions are really important and
>>> preparing and sharing the meals and drinks brings together people really
>>> well.
>>> Best of luck with your kitchen plans, try to keep it nice and
>>> functional, it will pay off eventually. However even if you decide to
>>> destroy it, which I do not consider wise because it will not touch a core
>>> of the current problem, when the time comes, it will be build again, it
>>> will just require bit more dedicated people than if it is already standing
>>> and ready to be used.
>>> Sincerely from Kasiri, Jeju,
>>> Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
>>> PS Just a note, yes the Noisebridge community has a major social issues
>>> and to start to resolve them lots of time and energy from people who are
>>> socially developed and sensitive will be needed, the question for you now
>>> is how to get them involved and enjoy their work and being productive. 091
>>> labs in Galway, Ireland are running for a brewing classes for a while and
>>> it is generating lots of positive interest. Add some tech related project
>>> like the experimental incubator build up and you can start to move the
>>> things forward in a sound way - friendly, social and organized.
>>> biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
>>> http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
>>> "There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
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